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Old 01-01-2009, 03:40 PM   #16
ishy
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Default Re: The Linear Heavyweight title: What next?

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That was more than two years later.
Yeah, but it would have cleared up any questions about Holmes' claim to the linear title I'd guess.
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Old 01-01-2009, 03:59 PM   #17
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Default Re: The Linear Heavyweight title: What next?

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Originally Posted by jeff thomas View Post
Seems like unification is the only answer.... would you include valuev in the mix?
Have you forgotten about the real WBA champ Chagaev? Who cares about Valuev or the WBA for that matter..with their multiple champion bullshit.

It was clear when Vitali beat Sanders that he was the king of the heavyweights...Byrd and Ruiz would have been battered blue.
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Old 01-01-2009, 04:13 PM   #18
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Default Re: The Linear Heavyweight title: What next?

Although it shouldn't have, beating Ali DID add weight to Holmes title. He'd also beat a lot of the other claimants around at that time in title challenges at some point.
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Old 01-01-2009, 04:15 PM   #19
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Default Re: The Linear Heavyweight title: What next?

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Originally Posted by Cobbler View Post
That was more than two years later.
But that kept a lineage......

Lineage is very strange and subjective, you just have to look at the Royal Family to see that (ElizabethII lineage coming from GeorgeI; but GeorgeI was something like 180 in line to the thrown after Anne's death, but most importantly at the time, the first Protestant).

For a new Heavyweight Championship lineage to take place I think we need one of the Klitschkos to lose, and then the other brother fight his brothers conqueror. Then you add in the winner of Valuev/ChagaevII (and any subsequent chances in that lineage) and then most would say you have yourself a lineage champion.
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Old 01-01-2009, 04:48 PM   #20
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Default Re: The Linear Heavyweight title: What next?

This is what I call intelligent debate.
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Old 01-01-2009, 05:05 PM   #21
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Default Re: The Linear Heavyweight title: What next?

If Wlad goes on to fight the winner of the Valuev-Chagaev rematch would that be for the linear title?

Wlad is universally accepted as no.1 HW and Chagaev and Valuev are ranked at 3 and 4 by most independent rankings and the winner of Valuev-Chagaev would most definitely be ranked at no.3 (behind Vitali) by Ring Magazine, Fightnews, Secondsout etc.

Would that be good enough to constitute a fight for the linear title considering both Klitschko's won't fight each other? Or do both fighters have to be recognised as the top 2 in the division to start a new lineage?
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Old 01-01-2009, 05:07 PM   #22
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Default Re: The Linear Heavyweight title: What next?

The Ring sanction 1 and 3 sometimes for a vacant lineal title.
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Old 01-01-2009, 05:10 PM   #23
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Default Re: The Linear Heavyweight title: What next?

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The Ring sanction 1 and 3 sometimes for a vacant lineal title.

Yeah but Ring belt doesn't always = linear belt (see LHW division). Also Vitali v Sanders was for the Ring belt but Vitali wasn't/isn't considered linear.
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Old 01-01-2009, 05:18 PM   #24
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Default Re: The Linear Heavyweight title: What next?

True, thats twice today you've had to correct my posts!!!
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Old 01-01-2009, 05:22 PM   #25
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Default Re: The Linear Heavyweight title: What next?

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True, thats twice today you've had to correct my posts!!!
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Old 01-01-2009, 05:39 PM   #26
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Default Re: The Linear Heavyweight title: What next?

I did have a point but have become confused.




Think it was about Wlad probably being the man but I think that making him v Arreola for the Ring belt or Linear title would be a joke.
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Old 01-01-2009, 06:52 PM   #27
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Default Re: The Linear Heavyweight title: What next?

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Originally Posted by ishy View Post
If Wlad goes on to fight the winner of the Valuev-Chagaev rematch would that be for the linear title?

Wlad is universally accepted as no.1 HW and Chagaev and Valuev are ranked at 3 and 4 by most independent rankings and the winner of Valuev-Chagaev would most definitely be ranked at no.3 (behind Vitali) by Ring Magazine, Fightnews, Secondsout etc.

Would that be good enough to constitute a fight for the linear title considering both Klitschko's won't fight each other? Or do both fighters have to be recognised as the top 2 in the division to start a new lineage?
I think many would say Vitali is the number one heavy. But if both brothers continue to win then its nearly impossible to crown either as Lineal champ.
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Old 01-02-2009, 06:24 AM   #28
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Default Re: The Linear Heavyweight title: What next?

True HW Lineage died when Tunney retired
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Old 01-02-2009, 09:00 AM   #29
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Default Re: The Linear Heavyweight title: What next?

Technically the linear champ would be the winner of Vit v Haye facing Chagaev to unify the WBC and WBA titles. THE IBF and WBO titles do not really account to linear as they are merely splinter groups. They have become major orgs and thus are believed to be part of the lineal process but they are not. The IBO is becoming a major org and being fought for by major fighters. Shall we just include that to the lineal process. It's the same way the IBF and WBO have been added to the process HOWEVER ONLY the WBC and WBA have any historical link to the process of lineage.

If Haye beats Vitali then he must beat Chagev and resume lineage.

Surely this must be the biggest break in lineage ever. Lewis retired six years ago!!!
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Old 01-02-2009, 09:05 AM   #30
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Default Re: The Linear Heavyweight title: What next?

People can not choose who they think is the best 2 fighters and make that a lineal showdown. That method is flawed. This happened at 135 when Corrales/Castillo etc were fighting and they tried to make the winner of that lineal. They totally discounted WBA champ Diaz. At the time no one thought Diaz was worthy of being included but it was he who turned out to be the best. The lineal champ is not who we THINK is the best; it is who unifies the belts. Acting on who we think is the best is too flawed and subjective thus no one is ever lineal. For example Marquez is not currently lineal at 135. Unfortunately boxing fans of today are unaware of what makes lineal because even though they are hardcore fans, the whole system has got too complicated thus even hardcore fans aren't sure what constitutes lineal.
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