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Old 01-08-2009, 01:03 PM   #1
slatsbollinger
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Default How does Rodrigo Valdez stack up?

I know he fought in the same era as one of the greatest middle weights of all time.

He also had some nice wins in his career, especially a trio over Briscoe.

If you look at the bulk of his work in his prime, only Monzon defeated him and then at the end a younger Corro.

I think he is definitely a top 20 mw, maybe top 15.

Opinions?
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Old 01-08-2009, 01:25 PM   #2
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Default Re: How does Rodrigo Valdez stack up?

Well, Valdez, as I've said before, was a standout as a fighter in his time, and would have been in any era, because he (for a relatively short time) was a blend of brutally effective, one-shot ko artist, as well as the kind that could dismantle you with a blizzard of combinations, and with cat-quick boxing skill. His 7th round ko of Bennie Briscoe in 1974, the rematch we're talking about here, was his signature fight, with a right hand bomb putting the lights out for Bad Bennie for the 1st and only time in his career, and what is usually not mentioned is the way Valdez neatly boxed the ears off the Man from Philly along the way, somewhat like the way Eddie Mustafa Muhammad would do the same to Marvin Johnson six years later. It is said, for lack of any real criticism that Valdez had trouble with tall fighters, and that he looked ordinary against Rudy Robles in a title defense that went the full 15...give the guy a break, he won the damned fight, and lot's of great champions had fights and opponents like that. Valdez gave the great Monzon the toughest two fights of his career, and I dont think losing to Monzon narrowly is anything to be ashamed about. Valdez was never the same after these two fights, and should have followed Monzon into retirement as well, instead of hanging around past his time to lose to Hugo Corro, who very cautiously outpointed the Black Panther on two occasions. I think Valdez would have given ANY middleweight all they could handle, and at his peak, against anyone else than Carlos Monzon, would have beaten them.
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Old 01-08-2009, 04:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: How does Rodrigo Valdez stack up?

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Originally Posted by red cobra View Post
Well, Valdez, as I've said before, was a standout as a fighter in his time, and would have been in any era, because he (for a relatively short time) was a blend of brutally effective, one-shot ko artist, as well as the kind that could dismantle you with a blizzard of combinations, and with cat-quick boxing skill. His 7th round ko of Bennie Briscoe in 1974, the rematch we're talking about here, was his signature fight, with a right hand bomb putting the lights out for Bad Bennie for the 1st and only time in his career, and what is usually not mentioned is the way Valdez neatly boxed the ears off the Man from Philly along the way, somewhat like the way Eddie Mustafa Muhammad would do the same to Marvin Johnson six years later. It is said, for lack of any real criticism that Valdez had trouble with tall fighters, and that he looked ordinary against Rudy Robles in a title defense that went the full 15...give the guy a break, he won the damned fight, and lot's of great champions had fights and opponents like that. Valdez gave the great Monzon the toughest two fights of his career, and I dont think losing to Monzon narrowly is anything to be ashamed about. Valdez was never the same after these two fights, and should have followed Monzon into retirement as well, instead of hanging around past his time to lose to Hugo Corro, who very cautiously outpointed the Black Panther on two occasions. I think Valdez would have given ANY middleweight all they could handle, and at his peak, against anyone else than Carlos Monzon, would have beaten them.
I couldnt put it any better myself.
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Old 01-08-2009, 06:12 PM   #4
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Default Re: How does Rodrigo Valdez stack up?

Rodrigo Valdez:

Strengths - quick hands, iron chin, tremendous punching power.

Weaknesses - somewhat flatfooted and one dimensional, defense not so good, could be outboxed.

Personally, I feel he was a bit overrated. His reputation today is based mostly on two fights he lost and speculation about "what could've been" if Monzon wasn't around. He did flatten Briscoe, which was a tremendous feat, but to me he looked just ordinary in that fight until he landed the KO punch. His jab was sloppy and pawing, and he allowed Briscoe to get in on him and hit him almost at will. Valdez was also looking a bit ragged and tired in that 7th round and basically got the KO by throwing a desperation punch. To me, he basically looked and fought the same as Briscoe, the only difference between them being Valdez's punching was quicker and sharper. He was one of the better challengers Monzon fought in his career, but I think that's more a reflection of how mundane the division was at that time rather than his own quality.
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Old 01-08-2009, 11:09 PM   #5
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Default Re: How does Rodrigo Valdez stack up?

My2sense you seem one of the brighter students of the game here. What do you think of Valdez vs prime Roldan in an all south american grudge match?

I can see the fur flying in this one. Someone is going to bite the dust but who?
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Old 01-09-2009, 11:54 AM   #6
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Default Re: How does Rodrigo Valdez stack up?

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Originally Posted by redrooster View Post
My2sense you seem one of the brighter students of the game here. What do you think of Valdez vs prime Roldan in an all south american grudge match?

I can see the fur flying in this one. Someone is going to bite the dust but who?
Valdez would have killed Roldan. Roldan wasnt as good as Briscoe.
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Old 01-09-2009, 12:42 PM   #7
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Default Re: How does Rodrigo Valdez stack up?

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Valdez would have killed Roldan. Roldan wasnt as good as Briscoe.
Why isnt he as good as Briscoe? Juan gave Hagler the fight of his life. I thought you saw it. so how can anyone say he wasnt as good as Briscoe. Briscoe lost on a regular basis even before he was used up.

hagler said Juan hit him harder than anyone he faced. How is Juan not as good? Hagler had problems hitting Juan. He had no problems hitting bennie. How is he not as good? Even fighting with one eye completely shut, gave Marvin a better fight than Briscoe with two good eyes.

Too many claims being taken as fact on this forum without justification.

I think peak Roldan bests Valdez who always had problems with Argentinians
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Old 01-09-2009, 12:42 PM   #8
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Default Re: How does Rodrigo Valdez stack up?

what you should have said was Roldan wasnt around as long as Briscoe
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Old 01-09-2009, 12:44 PM   #9
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Default Re: How does Rodrigo Valdez stack up?

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Originally Posted by redrooster View Post
what you should have said was Roldan wasnt around as long as Briscoe
And not as good.
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Old 01-09-2009, 12:53 PM   #10
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Default Re: How does Rodrigo Valdez stack up?

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Originally Posted by Drew101 View Post
And not as good.
like i said too many claims with out backup. come back when you feel like growing up kid
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Old 01-09-2009, 03:22 PM   #11
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Default Re: How does Rodrigo Valdez stack up?

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Originally Posted by redrooster View Post
Why isnt he as good as Briscoe? Juan gave Hagler the fight of his life. I thought you saw it. so how can anyone say he wasnt as good as Briscoe. Briscoe lost on a regular basis even before he was used up.

hagler said Juan hit him harder than anyone he faced. How is Juan not as good? Hagler had problems hitting Juan. He had no problems hitting bennie. How is he not as good? Even fighting with one eye completely shut, gave Marvin a better fight than Briscoe with two good eyes.

Too many claims being taken as fact on this forum without justification.

I think peak Roldan bests Valdez who always had problems with Argentinians
Just my opinion. I think Briscoe was more durable, harder punching, and just as strong as Roldan. Roldan was quicker, thats about it. I think Valdez would have countered Roldan to death then KO'd him.
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Old 01-09-2009, 03:25 PM   #12
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Default Re: How does Rodrigo Valdez stack up?

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Originally Posted by redrooster View Post
I think peak Roldan bests Valdez who always had problems with Argentinians
Does your idiocy know no bounds?
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Old 01-09-2009, 03:46 PM   #13
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Default Re: How does Rodrigo Valdez stack up?

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Originally Posted by Xplosive View Post
Just my opinion. I think Briscoe was more durable, harder punching, and just as strong as Roldan. Roldan was quicker, thats about it. I think Valdez would have countered Roldan to death then KO'd him.
Even Hagler as good a counterpuncher was, had problems countering Roldan-major problems. the jab didnt slow him down as he was landing practically at will. Juan knew how to cut off the ring as taught to him by the great Tito Lectoure. Juan was 100% prepared that night and didnt give Marvin a chance to think or the room he needed to box. Only Hagler could have soaked up those bombs that way and we still dont know the outcome had his eye not been damamged.
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Old 01-09-2009, 03:49 PM   #14
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Default Re: How does Rodrigo Valdez stack up?

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Originally Posted by redrooster View Post
like i said too many claims with out backup. come back when you feel like growing up kid
Just doing my best Redrooster impression.

Anyway, since I knew you were going to say something like that, here is a list of the quality contenders that Roldan fought and defeated...

Frank Fletcher.
James Kinchen.

Compared with some of the names of Briscoe's resume...

Emile Griffith
Eddie Mustapha Muhammad
Eugene Hart
Tony Mundine
Rafale Gutierrez

etc.

That's the basis for my claim...

Kiddo.
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Old 01-10-2009, 10:33 AM   #15
robert ungurean
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Default Re: How does Rodrigo Valdez stack up?

I would like to see alot more opinions on this thread.
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