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Old 01-11-2009, 04:01 AM   #16
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

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Originally Posted by $.02 View Post
YES I SAID IT!





A few years ago I had to do some research on Jack Johnson for a paper in High School. Around that time that docuementary came out on Jack Johnson "Unforgivable Blackness". Then as usual, people watched and started goin on on about how he paved the way for black athletes. I was disgusted by this because it was so far from the truth. In my opinion, this takes away from Joe louis, Who was the first and only real black athlete to pave the way for future black athletes. I am shocked that many people here say he paved the way as well, when he DID NOTHING!

JOE LOUIS did the most for black athletes...

In fact, Johnson refused to fight any black fighters and he did more damage to the black race than anyone. He did so much damage that they wouldn't even PERMIT a black man to fight for the title.... for years! So, many other black fighters could have been world champions, after Johnson, but they weren't allowed. He didn't care what he did for black people.

He would tell you point blank: 'I'm not obsessed with trying to be a black patriot... I'm not trying to open doors for anyone else... I just look out for the pleasures of Jack Johnson!' When he beat Jess Willard, and black people were getting killed all over the country because they celebrated his win... he didn't care. Johnson's main object and enjoyment was creating pain and misery for the white establishment. But, he was a smart businessman too. He always had money. He was protected, to a certain degree, and was a big figure in the underground world of gamblers and prostitutes. That's why he was able to operate in the white world. He had white people in power that he controlled. He was making money on the side with his brothels and was able to buy his way out of things.


Now, people who don't know any better, are trying to get Congress to pardon Johnson for violating the Mann Act (transporting a woman across state line for immoral purposes). But he was not innocent of that. No one set him up. He did it! He knew the girl. He was a pimp in Chicago and that's how he made most of his money. He hardly made any money from fighting. There was one instance where Johnson got mad at someone in town because they wouldn't let him into a movie theater because he was black. So, he went and withdrew $25,000 out of his bank account. He took his wife and 4 of his hookers and blew the money on a weekend trip just to party. You know how much $25,000 was back then? Just for a weekend of fun? He did that just to show off.

Then, Joe Louis came along. He had a light complexion and was specially groomed to be acceptable. They taught him never to gloat over an opponent... to be humble and respectful, and to be the complete opposite of Jack Johnson. So, Louis did more for the black race than any man in history. He was not only a fighter, he opened the door for race relationships. He was the one who made it easier for other generations that came along. When Louis fought Schmelling for a second time, there was never a time in history where the whole world was all united around the radio. It was more than just a fight between two men, in a roped off area in New York. It was a fight against a big movement that was taking over the whole world. It was a fight between good and evil.... and Joe represented good.

So when Joe knocked out Schmelling, no longer were the people in America black or white. They were Americans. Joe Louis, fought for the dignity and the freedom of the free world. That night - especially with the drama of having been knocked out by Schmelling... with the whole world on pins and needles - was like a night that the earth stood still. There . He knwas so much pressure on his shouldersocked Schmelling out so devastatingly that the United States and the whole free world were shouting in the streets. That's when Louis became the biggest hero.... ever. No athlete or any political figure could have done what Louis did that night. He went beyond being a boxer. After that, no one looked so much at black and white anymore. And THAT's what a heavyweight champ is all about.



Do you guys agree with me?
This post is full of innaccuracies and downright bullshit.I will address it later .2 cents?That over values it!

Last edited by mcvey; 01-06-2010 at 06:06 AM.
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Old 01-11-2009, 05:24 AM   #17
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

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Yeah, he just turned about and called Frazier the equivalent of a n*gger.

Oh that Ali!
Fukk are you a broken record.
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Old 01-11-2009, 05:36 AM   #18
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

Agreed..... You idiot... a very uneducated, opinionated, poorly researched pile of rubbish.

2 cents... Regarding the antics of Johnson, and the negative attitudes of the time..... He was simply a black man, treating himself with the equality of the common americans... living lavishly, spending vast sums of money at will, showing his complete lack of respect to those he looked down on, carelessly creating outrage via those feeling the disrectful indignation. In a sense, he behaved like a WHITE MAN. He felt free, in control and willing to show the equality or supremacy of the coloured man.

His demorolisation, of Jefferies (not Willard) created racial firewords across the U.S, violence and lynchings directed at the black men. Johnson surely felt the negativity from these actions. The MANN ACT was introduced, having been passed through the senate, as a last ditch attempt to eradicate Johnson, and regain some credibility to the H/W championship, via that law being passed. A feeble, disgraceful affort when taken into consideration now.

Joe Louis... my god.. how dare you make any suggestions towards Louis, without giving Johnson some respect prior.

Johnson clearly proved the ability, and worthiness of a coloured man to become H/W champ of the world. He totally controlled the division, until that control was taken.... typically via the hands of others with little ability, other than the ability of 'RED TAPE'.

The behaviour of Johnson may have been disgraceful, yet, what did Johnson do that was disgraceful????? He enjoyed women. He enjoyed fast motor vehicles. He enjoyed good living. He enjoyed taunting his opponent. He enjoyed being a proud man.

His failing was purely colour based.... That Failing is a reflection of the USA at that time.

Granted, it took a generation, until a formidable coloured fighter was to fight for the heavyweight crown again. Look what that man, Joe Louis, become. Look at the figure he represented. Look at the pressure he must have felt. look at the good will he offered. Look at the accolades he attained. Look at the man he was.

In mention of that, take at look into the aspirations of the I.R.S.. the shocking manner in which they pursued Louis for taxes. Those taxes to be paid on cheques he had signed over to the U.S army, and U.S Air Foce as donations. Never taking a cent from either. Dignity and Freedom hey???????? Hypocritical government.

Joe Louis may have symbolised the USA, the night of the second Schmeling fight, but please dont say he faught for the dignity and freedom of the world. The USA has never stood for that. Louis faught for the dignity and supremecy of the USA.. much the same as Jesse Owens at the '36 Olympics. Dignity and Freedom.... what a ****ing joke.

The fact Jack Johnson belittled the American public at the time hurt a good many egos, and questioned a good many attitudes. Give Johnson credit, he showed the strength of the coloured man. The Whites attitudes showed their own weaknesses. A filthy state of affairs, thankfully brought into correct perspective by Johnson, and the acceptance of Louis a generation later.

Without Johnson, there may not have been a Joe Louis.
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Old 01-11-2009, 06:08 AM   #19
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

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Fukk are you a broken record.

Perhaps so, but he's probably fed up with Ali being brought into this debate whilst downgrading Joe Louis's efforts.
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Old 01-11-2009, 06:20 AM   #20
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

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that sums up how inspirastional joe was
True. There's even a section devoted to what Joe meant to his race in "I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings", wherein Maya Angelou describes growing up in the American south and listening to one of Louis' fights as a child in her uncle's store where all the locals would crammed into the shop to listen to the radio. A huge inspiration to his race, the human race.*



* Couldn't resist that one.
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Old 01-11-2009, 06:32 AM   #21
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

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Yeah, Joe Louis undoubtley did more more for the opportunities of black people. But unwittingly. Both just had their own best at heart.

No wrong with that, but I'm tired of this hero image of Louis. Did the guy EVER speak out against the terrible unjustices that blacks were victims to during his time? God knows that he eventually became big enough to do it without risking too much. But the guy did fukk all. He was just ruined by the same country that he gave his best years as a pro in service of.

Louis's fate, if any, gives credence to Ali's defiant: "No Viet Cong ever called me n*gger".
I think Louis' work was so great BECAUSE he didn't openly speak out against racism. Yes, it's tempting to rebel, and in that sense i can't blame Johnson for what he did... but fact is that he made things worse for the black people. It proved to be much more effective to be humble and do little things here and there where you can. That's sacrifice, and what made Joe Louis such a great person in addition to a great sportsman and fighter.
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Old 01-11-2009, 06:36 AM   #22
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

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I think Louis' work was so great BECAUSE he didn't openly speak out against racism. Yes, it's tempting to rebel, and in that sense i can't blame Johnson for what he did... but fact is that he made things worse for the black people. It proved to be much more effective to be humble and do little things here and there where you can. That's sacrifice, and what made Joe Louis such a great person in addition to a great sportsman and fighter.
Pontius..... Arse Kissing never made an impact. It always shows total resignation and design, to those arses being kissed. Johnson was a diplomatic Arse Kicker.
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Old 01-11-2009, 06:39 AM   #23
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

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I think Louis' work was so great BECAUSE he didn't openly speak out against racism. Yes, it's tempting to rebel, and in that sense i can't blame Johnson for what he did... but fact is that he made things worse for the black people. It proved to be much more effective to be humble and do little things here and there where you can. That's sacrifice, and what made Joe Louis such a great person in addition to a great sportsman and fighter.
I can't blame Louis for not speaking out more clearly against racism, but it would have made a greater impression on me if he did.

It is true, though, that Johnson made things worse for black athletes, and that Louis made them better. But it doesn't seem to me that anyone of them had a political agenda, but rather did what they did for their owns' sake. Personally I prefer Johnson's open defiance, but I don't think Wills and others felt very grateful for it.
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Old 01-11-2009, 06:40 AM   #24
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

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Pontius..... Arse Kissing never made an impact. It always shows total resignation and design, to those arses being kissed. Johnson was a diplomatic Arse Kicker.
It wasn't arse kissing, it was being humble and making the white people realize that black men are human too. His humanistic achievements cannot be denied (though you're making a good effort of trying to do so).
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Old 01-11-2009, 06:41 AM   #25
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

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Perhaps so, but he's probably fed up with Ali being brought into this debate whilst downgrading Joe Louis's efforts.
Fair enough. Let's keep Ali out of it.
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Old 01-11-2009, 06:44 AM   #26
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

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Agreed..... You idiot... a very uneducated, opinionated, poorly researched pile of rubbish.

2 cents... Regarding the antics of Johnson, and the negative attitudes of the time..... He was simply a black man, treating himself with the equality of the common americans... living lavishly, spending vast sums of money at will, showing his complete lack of respect to those he looked down on, carelessly creating outrage via those feeling the disrectful indignation. In a sense, he behaved like a WHITE MAN. He felt free, in control and willing to show the equality or supremacy of the coloured man.

His demorolisation, of Jefferies (not Willard) created racial firewords across the U.S, violence and lynchings directed at the black men. Johnson surely felt the negativity from these actions. The MANN ACT was introduced, having been passed through the senate, as a last ditch attempt to eradicate Johnson, and regain some credibility to the H/W championship, via that law being passed. A feeble, disgraceful affort when taken into consideration now.

Joe Louis... my god.. how dare you make any suggestions towards Louis, without giving Johnson some respect prior.

Johnson clearly proved the ability, and worthiness of a coloured man to become H/W champ of the world. He totally controlled the division, until that control was taken.... typically via the hands of others with little ability, other than the ability of 'RED TAPE'.

The behaviour of Johnson may have been disgraceful, yet, what did Johnson do that was disgraceful????? He enjoyed women. He enjoyed fast motor vehicles. He enjoyed good living. He enjoyed taunting his opponent. He enjoyed being a proud man.

His failing was purely colour based.... That Failing is a reflection of the USA at that time.

Granted, it took a generation, until a formidable coloured fighter was to fight for the heavyweight crown again. Look what that man, Joe Louis, become. Look at the figure he represented. Look at the pressure he must have felt. look at the good will he offered. Look at the accolades he attained. Look at the man he was.

In mention of that, take at look into the aspirations of the I.R.S.. the shocking manner in which they pursued Louis for taxes. Those taxes to be paid on cheques he had signed over to the U.S army, and U.S Air Foce as donations. Never taking a cent from either. Dignity and Freedom hey???????? Hypocritical government.

Joe Louis may have symbolised the USA, the night of the second Schmeling fight, but please dont say he faught for the dignity and freedom of the world. The USA has never stood for that. Louis faught for the dignity and supremecy of the USA.. much the same as Jesse Owens at the '36 Olympics. Dignity and Freedom.... what a ****ing joke.

The fact Jack Johnson belittled the American public at the time hurt a good many egos, and questioned a good many attitudes. Give Johnson credit, he showed the strength of the coloured man. The Whites attitudes showed their own weaknesses. A filthy state of affairs, thankfully brought into correct perspective by Johnson, and the acceptance of Louis a generation later.

Without Johnson, there may not have been a Joe Louis.
How?

Jack Johnson was even Talking shyt and disgracing Joe Louis during his reign as champion?

Without Jack Jophnson there may have Benn more black champions between Himlef and louis earlier, but the coward never gave them a shot because he was a selfish bastard.

I would go into you further, but from what you have written , it showd that you have no idea of the damage he did. You are on of those people that watched those stupid docuementaries and are talking out of your ass.

I will admit the man had it hard but so did Louis. He even made it harder Louis to get a hot because of his antics. Louis had to sign bullshit contracts in order to get his title shots.

Louis and Ali, Jackie Robinson all did more than Johnson did.

Johnson just won the belt and beat mediocre competition at best.
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Old 01-11-2009, 07:12 AM   #27
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

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It wasn't arse kissing, it was being humble and making the white people realize that black men are human too. His humanistic achievements cannot be denied (though you're making a good effort of trying to do so).

What achievements would you, in your true opinion suggest, that via my own words in the initial post attempt to discredit Johnson from?? Louis had his work in front of him. The path was barely a harsh ride. Johnson cleared that path through his own means.

A lot of rubbish wat cleared, purely by acceptance, acknowledgement and willingness to incorperate superior fighters into the mainsteam.

Last edited by flamengo; 01-11-2009 at 08:04 AM.
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Old 01-11-2009, 07:53 AM   #28
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

Since when was it Jack's remit to do for the black athlete and apeace people? Jack came up in the hardest way possible earned his honours and took full advantage of them when on top like he should. The way he succeeded against all odds is a great story. Joe Louis was managed to come across as modest and moral so he got the opportunities. Joe Louis supposedly womanised as many white women as Johnson, he just didn't flaunt it.
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:26 AM   #29
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

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It wasn't arse kissing, it was being humble and making the white people realize that black men are human too. His humanistic achievements cannot be denied (though you're making a good effort of trying to do so).
I have to agree, Johnson was one of the first black stars and he fell into the sterio type that was expected from him. Joe Louis was an American and did more by being humble and polite for the black people. Louis was not an ass kisser or a uncle Tom. He was a man who loved his country and worked through the race issues by rising to the occasion and being the better man. Martin Luther King did more with peace and acomplished more for civil rights (not only for blacks but all minorities) but MLK did it showing he was a human being who wanted the same for his family that everyone wanted. I can understand Johnson being angry and not wanting to be 2nd fiddle but the way he acted was self serving or not thoughtful for the hardworking blacks that were affected by the sterotype. Ali was a middle class kid who wanted to join the Black Muslims but they were a gang( sold drugs and took Ali's money) It helped make his image( some hated him and some loved him) but MLK did more for civil rights while the hate the Black Muslins spewed set Blacks as a whole backwards
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:32 AM   #30
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

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Since when was it Jack's remit to do for the black athlete and apeace people? Jack came up in the hardest way possible earned his honours and took full advantage of them when on top like he should. The way he succeeded against all odds is a great story. Joe Louis was managed to come across as modest and moral so he got the opportunities. Joe Louis supposedly womanised as many white women as Johnson, he just didn't flaunt it.
Louis may have messed with some white woman but he did not care for that type of trashy white woman that would mess with a black man at that time. All Louis's wives were black and he liked High Yella girls (light skinned black woman) Robinson spoke of a love affair with a white woman in his book ( may have been a star) because they kept it quiet but SRR said he had to keep it behind close doors because the world was not ready for it.
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