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Old 01-11-2009, 08:37 AM   #31
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

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Originally Posted by Bummy Davis View Post
Louis may have messed with some white woman but he did not care for that type of trashy white woman that would mess with a black man at that time. All Louis's wives were black and he liked High Yella girls (light skinned black woman) Robinson spoke of a love affair with a white woman in his book ( may have been a star) because they kept it quiet but SRR said he had to keep it behind close doors because the world was not ready for it.
But should a HW CHamp Alpha Male really bow down about the women and hide the fact of the girl he chooses to be his? Hell Johnson catches more flack for having white women then Tyson does for rape

I'm not sure if Johnson was naive or confrontational about the fact however
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:52 AM   #32
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

While it would be a mistake to say that Johnson furthered the cause of other black athletes, I'm nothing less than disgusted by any notion that he should be blamed fot not conducting his affairs with white women in a more a subserviant way.

Louis's way was smarter and more effective (and very much a necessity just because of Johnson), but at the end of the day I have nothing but respect for Johnson's big fukk you to the white public.
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Old 01-11-2009, 11:36 AM   #33
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

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Agreed..... You idiot... a very uneducated, opinionated, poorly researched pile of rubbish.

2 cents... Regarding the antics of Johnson, and the negative attitudes of the time..... He was simply a black man, treating himself with the equality of the common americans... living lavishly, spending vast sums of money at will, showing his complete lack of respect to those he looked down on, carelessly creating outrage via those feeling the disrectful indignation. In a sense, he behaved like a WHITE MAN. He felt free, in control and willing to show the equality or supremacy of the coloured man.

His demorolisation, of Jefferies (not Willard) created racial firewords across the U.S, violence and lynchings directed at the black men. Johnson surely felt the negativity from these actions. The MANN ACT was introduced, having been passed through the senate, as a last ditch attempt to eradicate Johnson, and regain some credibility to the H/W championship, via that law being passed. A feeble, disgraceful affort when taken into consideration now.

Joe Louis... my god.. how dare you make any suggestions towards Louis, without giving Johnson some respect prior.

Johnson clearly proved the ability, and worthiness of a coloured man to become H/W champ of the world. He totally controlled the division, until that control was taken.... typically via the hands of others with little ability, other than the ability of 'RED TAPE'.

The behaviour of Johnson may have been disgraceful, yet, what did Johnson do that was disgraceful????? He enjoyed women. He enjoyed fast motor vehicles. He enjoyed good living. He enjoyed taunting his opponent. He enjoyed being a proud man.

His failing was purely colour based.... That Failing is a reflection of the USA at that time.

Granted, it took a generation, until a formidable coloured fighter was to fight for the heavyweight crown again. Look what that man, Joe Louis, become. Look at the figure he represented. Look at the pressure he must have felt. look at the good will he offered. Look at the accolades he attained. Look at the man he was.

In mention of that, take at look into the aspirations of the I.R.S.. the shocking manner in which they pursued Louis for taxes. Those taxes to be paid on cheques he had signed over to the U.S army, and U.S Air Foce as donations. Never taking a cent from either. Dignity and Freedom hey???????? Hypocritical government.

Joe Louis may have symbolised the USA, the night of the second Schmeling fight, but please dont say he faught for the dignity and freedom of the world. The USA has never stood for that. Louis faught for the dignity and supremecy of the USA.. much the same as Jesse Owens at the '36 Olympics. Dignity and Freedom.... what a ****ing joke.

The fact Jack Johnson belittled the American public at the time hurt a good many egos, and questioned a good many attitudes. Give Johnson credit, he showed the strength of the coloured man. The Whites attitudes showed their own weaknesses. A filthy state of affairs, thankfully brought into correct perspective by Johnson, and the acceptance of Louis a generation later.

Without Johnson, there may not have been a Joe Louis.
DONT EVER IN YOUR LIFE COMPARE Jack Johnson to JOE LOUIS!


Jack Johnson's accomplishments in the ring were very limited. He was mainly known for his hatred of the white establishment. But as for his fights in the ring.... he fights a 36 year old man (Bob Fitzsimmons) who came out of retirement, who had no business in the ring at all.... just so he could fight for the white race. When Johnson won the heavyweight title, he fought a 5'7", little bitty man (Tommy Burns) who weighed only 168 pounds.

Then, there was such hype when he fought Jim Jeffries, but Jeffries was another one who shouldn't have been in the ring. He hadn't fought in 6 years and had to lose 100 pounds for their fight. And, Johnson knocks out (Stanley) Ketchel.... who was a middleweight - who at one point knocked Johnson down in their fight!

Then he gets knocked out by Jess Willard, then says he took a dive. So, if you look at his history, that's really what's he's known for. And, he refused to fight Sam Langford a second time because he gave Johnson such a hard time a couple of years before he won the title. And Langford was only 5'8"! Johnson was 6'1"! In fact, Johnson refused to fight any black fighters and he did more damage to the black race than anyone.


He did so much damage that they wouldn't even PERMIT a black man to fight for the title.... for years! So, many other black fighters could have been world champions, after Johnson, but they weren't allowed.


People Like you jump on Fighters today for not fighting There top contenders, but give the "Ol School" fighters a pass, Why is that?
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Old 01-11-2009, 11:50 AM   #34
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
But should a HW CHamp Alpha Male really bow down about the women and hide the fact of the girl he chooses to be his? Hell Johnson catches more flack for having white women then Tyson does for rape

I'm not sure if Johnson was naive or confrontational about the fact however

I am not sure if it helped him sell tickets because the whites wanted him to lose or if it was just the way he was...Louis was not less of a hero to the Blacks because of his discression in fact a lot of blacks did not like the fact that Johnson thought fast white woman and fast Cars spelled success.....one man should not have an impact on the way society views a race but high profile people do have that effect
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Old 01-11-2009, 11:50 AM   #35
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

Some of you criticize Marciano, Tyson and Holmes for not fighting top tier competition, where is your big mouths for this guy????????????

And most of you rate him in your top 5?????????????????????
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Old 01-11-2009, 01:07 PM   #36
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

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I can't blame Louis for not speaking out more clearly against racism, but it would have made a greater impression on me if he did.
Joe Louis did become quite vocal about civil rights issues after his boxing career was over.

What clearly comes across about Louis is that he believed in a gradualist aproach to improving the prospects of his race.

He built up his position one brick at a time and became more vocaly critical as his position became stronger.
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Old 01-11-2009, 01:20 PM   #37
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

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Joe Louis did become quite vocal about civil rights issues after his boxing career was over.

What clearly comes across about Louis is that he believed in a gradualist aproach to improving the prospects of his race.

He built up his position one brick at a time and became more vocaly critical as his position became stronger.
Fair enough. I regress. Such a strategy is hard to critisize.
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Old 01-11-2009, 01:31 PM   #38
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

I see some Whites are still outraged at the audacity of the Great Jack Joh son over a century after he whipped Burns.
It is as unseemly & offensive to blame Blacks for the racism perpertrated against them as it is to blame a woman for her own rape. To say Johnson is the reason for the treatment of Black athletes is ridiculous & excusing the backward racism that was rampant in America at the time.

Jack Johson was a transformational figure who showed Blacks that they shouldn't have to live their lives cowering to Whites in America. Blacks who could be & were LYNCHED for any of the following reasons:
Not adressing a White perso Mr,Mrs,Sir,...looking at a White woman lustfully,not moving off a sidewalk for a White,looking a White person in the eye,etc.....

ALI was still in awe of Jack Johnson over a half century after his reign & basically admitted that he never ever was as bold as Johson & basically called Johnson "crazy". Ali was aware of the brutality directed towards Blacks of the era & if he is good enough for Ali to hold in complete awe I will simply dismiss the internet idiots who hold him in complete contempt.

Jack Johnson owed Black athletes nothing as well as Black people. Thousands of Blacks were being Lynched BEFORE they ever new Johnson existed so stop blaming Jack Johnson .But what he did give Blacks was proof that they were just as good at anything as any White person & that was enough in most of their eyes. He was adored in most of the Black community.
(By the way Jack Johnson beat Jenette 3 times outright & defended his title 7 times against him ,Mcvvea 3 times & whipped Langford. How many dam fights does he owe these guys ?

Johnson was an expert businessman an milked the contempt from White America for everything it was worth. They weren't interested in seeing him fight another BLACK Boxer. Instead they went on a obssessive 7 year hunt for the GREAT WHITE HOPE which meant mindboggling gates.
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Old 01-11-2009, 01:43 PM   #39
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

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Originally Posted by Bummy Davis View Post
Louis may have messed with some white woman but he did not care for that type of trashy white woman that would mess with a black man at that time. All Louis's wives were black and he liked High Yella girls (light skinned black woman) Robinson spoke of a love affair with a white woman in his book ( may have been a star) because they kept it quiet but SRR said he had to keep it behind close doors because the world was not ready for it.
Like Jack Johnson's wealthy White wife / socialite Etta Duryea whose father Charles Duryea owned Duryea Motor Company & produced the first car ever commercially manufactured? She was the very best White society had to offer in America & was reason for a little extra resetment from Whites. Or the Australian socialite Lola Toy?

You insist on playing up to stereotypes & not the facts huh? Read up on the man a bit more before spew inaccuracies.
Jack Johson was a 'Sporting Man' (gambling,women,dogfighting,Horses drinking,etc...) who did have some unsavory men & White women around him ,but please check your facts.
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Old 01-11-2009, 04:37 PM   #40
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

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I see some Whites are still outraged at the audacity of the Great Jack Joh son over a century after he whipped Burns.
It is as unseemly & offensive to blame Blacks for the racism perpertrated against them as it is to blame a woman for her own rape. To say Johnson is the reason for the treatment of Black athletes is ridiculous & excusing the backward racism that was rampant in America at the time.

Jack Johson was a transformational figure who showed Blacks that they shouldn't have to live their lives cowering to Whites in America. Blacks who could be & were LYNCHED for any of the following reasons:
Not adressing a White perso Mr,Mrs,Sir,...looking at a White woman lustfully,not moving off a sidewalk for a White,looking a White person in the eye,etc.....

ALI was still in awe of Jack Johnson over a half century after his reign & basically admitted that he never ever was as bold as Johson & basically called Johnson "crazy". Ali was aware of the brutality directed towards Blacks of the era & if he is good enough for Ali to hold in complete awe I will simply dismiss the internet idiots who hold him in complete contempt.

Jack Johnson owed Black athletes nothing as well as Black people. Thousands of Blacks were being Lynched BEFORE they ever new Johnson existed so stop blaming Jack Johnson .But what he did give Blacks was proof that they were just as good at anything as any White person & that was enough in most of their eyes. He was adored in most of the Black community.
It is unfair to blame Jack Johnson for the racism perpetrated against him and he was more victim than vilain.

That dosnt mean that he couldnt have done better under the circumstances.

To play devils advocate lets say that he was like Joe Louis:

He ignores the racial slurs against him and tries to prove his critics wrong by proving that he can be a good role model.

He shows decency and dignity which offer an obvious contrast to his racist attackers for even the most hostile observers.

His rapid destruction of oponents both white and black makes a mockery of the idea of white racial supremacy.




Is it impossible that he could have done what Joe Louis did and torn down the colour bar forever?



We will never know.
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Old 01-11-2009, 04:39 PM   #41
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
But should a HW CHamp Alpha Male really bow down about the women and hide the fact of the girl he chooses to be his? Hell Johnson catches more flack for having white women then Tyson does for rape

I'm not sure if Johnson was naive or confrontational about the fact however
He used to wrap gauze around his penis to make it look bigger.
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Old 01-11-2009, 04:44 PM   #42
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He used to wrap gauze around his penis to make it look bigger.
Noted, but did Jack Prescott encourage him?
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Old 01-11-2009, 05:02 PM   #43
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

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do you think that blacks didn't celebrate the johnson victory? there were riots in the streets and lynching of blacks by whites. johnson lived just like any man should have been able to and didn't give a damn. he is one of my heroes and i am not even black.
I second that.

Sure, it doesn't look good that he never gave guys like Langford a shot at his title, but as already have been pointed out, that's not where the money was. Classic high risk, low reward. And anyone who hasn't had to fight (literally) his way out of poverty is in no place to be the judge of such decisions IMO.
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Old 01-11-2009, 06:31 PM   #44
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

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Originally Posted by sugar71 View Post
Like Jack Johnson's wealthy White wife / socialite Etta Duryea whose father Charles Duryea owned Duryea Motor Company & produced the first car ever commercially manufactured? She was the very best White society had to offer in America & was reason for a little extra resetment from Whites. Or the Australian socialite Lola Toy?

You insist on playing up to stereotypes & not the facts huh? Read up on the man a bit more before spew inaccuracies.
Jack Johson was a 'Sporting Man' (gambling,women,dogfighting,Horses drinking,etc...) who did have some unsavory men & White women around him ,but please check your facts.

Money does not mean a person had class....a white woman that went out with a black @ that time was looked @ as trash, she went against what white society thought was TABOO....they became an outcast among there own and having Johnson as the pick must have really made them an outcast, especially if she came from money.....FACT is thats a Fact
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Old 01-11-2009, 07:11 PM   #45
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Default Re: Jack Johnson DID NOTHING for Black athletes.!

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It is unfair to blame Jack Johnson for the racism perpetrated against him and he was more victim than vilain.

That dosnt mean that he couldnt have done better under the circumstances.

To play devils advocate lets say that he was like Joe Louis:

He ignores the racial slurs against him and tries to prove his critics wrong by proving that he can be a good role model.

He shows decency and dignity which offer an obvious contrast to his racist attackers for even the most hostile observers.

His rapid destruction of oponents both white and black makes a mockery of the idea of white racial supremacy.




Is it impossible that he could have done what Joe Louis did and torn down the colour bar forever?



We will never know.
Your point is well taken, but no matter how Jack Johnson conducted himself Blacks would have been subjected to the most vile forms of racism just as they did before he came along. Yes , Jack Johnson's taunting poured salt in the wound but it was the fact that he threw the theory of White superiority back in the faces of Whites is what upset them. Slick Fight promoters & sports writers of the day exploited Johnson's color also to sell papers & tickets with all of the GREAT White HOPE TALK & worked up an already openly racist White citizenry into a frenzy.

I just think it is beyond stupid ,however to blame Jack Johnson for the prejudice of others & the predicament of Black Americans or Black Athletes. If nothing he proved that they could compete with ayone on any level even dominate like Johson did for 7-9 years.

Johnson was beloved,admired by most in the Black community(except for submissive leaders like Booker T Washington) & his victories set off celebrations whenever he won(especially Burns & Jefferies). Now some who are probably not Black are employing revisionist history to reduce his importance to the black community & his accomplishment?
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