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Old 08-16-2007, 12:42 PM   #1
Russell
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Default Frazier - Was he any less motivated for...

The second and third Ali fights?

I know it's been said more than once that Joe was slipping by the time of even the first Foreman fight. Lack of motivation and just about no one seeing George as the threat he'd later be. After all, Joe had just beaten Ali in the fight of the century. As it's been said, Joe was more or less just giving some joe schmoe a "chance" in the ring.

Anyway, Frazier gained a few pounds for the second fight, Ali lost a few.

Were there any other differences beyond that one?

Just seems to be like he always had the raw tools to beat Ali... The ability to close the gap between the two, to make Ali fight Frazier's fight, a left hook (Which Ali was vulnerable to throughout his career) durability, stamina...

And when they were applied like they were in the first Ali/Frazier fight, Frazier won.

Could he simply just never get to that place, fitness and concentration wise, again? Did Ali stay or even get into better shape and batter Joe down even further psychologically?
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Old 08-16-2007, 12:48 PM   #2
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Default Re: Frazier - Was he any less motivated for...

You can harness hate and direct your effort towards it or just let it eat away at you.

I think Frazier did the first during their first fight, resulting in him being in the best condition of his life.

I think the latter might of been true as time went on.
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Old 08-16-2007, 12:54 PM   #3
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Default Re: Frazier - Was he any less motivated for...

Yeah. The clinching from Ali has always gotten to me a little. At least he was skillful with it, enough so not to get points deducted.

But he still did it to get through quite a few fights, and to wear fighters down considerably in others. But he was Ali... He could and did get away with a lot.
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Old 08-16-2007, 01:46 PM   #4
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Default Re: Frazier - Was he any less motivated for...

They had a fight in the studio just before their 2nd fight so of course Frazier was well up for it and as motivated as ever to beat Ali. Ali could move better and do it longer in their 2nd fight. He had 3 years of fighting before that one not just 6 months as in the first. Ali was in better fighting shape for the 2nd fight - no resting on the ropes or playing about. Frazier had only lost to Foreman at that point. Ali had 2 losses.
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Old 08-16-2007, 02:16 PM   #5
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Default Re: Frazier - Was he any less motivated for...

In champions Forever, joe says he was more up for that fight than the first one.
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Old 08-16-2007, 06:33 PM   #6
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Default Re: Frazier - Was he any less motivated for...

The only fight in which I'd say Frazier's motivation was a bit off was in the rematch against Foreman. Not to say Frazier wasn't motivated. But he either didn't train right or had the wrong frame of mind going into the ring. He was too heavy and somehow thought a bald head would help.
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Old 08-16-2007, 06:41 PM   #7
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Default Re: Frazier - Was he any less motivated for...

Less motivated? Absolutley not, no way.

Less good perhaps. I think the first one took something out of him, I don't think he was the same after that. He was also having more trouble with his bad eye, it seems.

But no, he was not less motivated.
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Old 08-16-2007, 06:47 PM   #8
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Default Re: Frazier - Was he any less motivated for...

Frazier had a lot of problems later on, it seems.
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Old 08-16-2007, 06:49 PM   #9
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Default Re: Frazier - Was he any less motivated for...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell
Frazier had a lot of problems later on, it seems.

Yeah.

I think that he did take his foot of the gas a little bit between Ali I and II but George put him right. Painfully.
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Old 08-17-2007, 08:39 PM   #10
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Default Re: Frazier - Was he any less motivated for...

I think Joe was not the same physically in II as in I, but mentally he was just as driven to beat Ali in that fight and also III as he was in the first fight. Joe had a genuine disdain for Ali and would never need to “get motivated” vs. Ali. The ugly truth to this was evident years later when he referred to Ali’s present health condition as “Frazieritous.” Does anybody recall an interview (?) with Frazier, Ali and Holmes, where Joe’s ribbing of Ali went a little overboard and Larry stepped in and put his hand on Joe along with an “Ok that’s about enough” look? No I don’t think Joe was never NOT motivated to rip into Ali with hooks and uppercuts. I think even now he wouldn’t mind another crack at Ali.
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Old 08-17-2007, 08:53 PM   #11
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Default Re: Frazier - Was he any less motivated for...

Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzsaw
I think Joe was not the same physically in II as in I, but mentally he was just as driven to beat Ali in that fight and also III as he was in the first fight. Joe had a genuine disdain for Ali and would never need to “get motivated” vs. Ali. The ugly truth to this was evident years later when he referred to Ali’s present health condition as “Frazieritous.” Does anybody recall an interview (?) with Frazier, Ali and Holmes, where Joe’s ribbing of Ali went a little overboard and Larry stepped in and put his hand on Joe along with an “Ok that’s about enough” look? No I don’t think Joe was never NOT motivated to rip into Ali with hooks and uppercuts. I think even now he wouldn’t mind another crack at Ali.
He wasn't exactly friendly towards Ali in his autobiography either. Frazier's hate is easy to understand considering the way Ali constantly tried to humiliate him during their careers, but still...

But yes, it's definitely safe to say that Frazier was always 100% motivated when he fought Ali. I think that he would have been willing to lose five fights against tomato cans for another win against Ali.
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:00 PM   #12
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Default Re: Frazier - Was he any less motivated for...

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Less motivated? Absolutley not, no way.

Less good perhaps. I think the first one took something out of him, I don't think he was the same after that. He was also having more trouble with his bad eye, it seems.

But no, he was not less motivated.
This.
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:12 AM   #13
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Default Re: Frazier - Was he any less motivated for...

Joe had health problems that got worse as his career went on. I think he was very motivated for all the Ali fights. I think he lost his focus after beating Ali in the first bout. He seemed to take his foot off the gas along with his health issues.

If anything he was a little off going into his Jamaica fight with George Foreman.
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:17 AM   #14
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Default Re: Frazier - Was he any less motivated for...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fg2227 View Post
In champions Forever, joe says he was more up for that fight than the first one.
There you go
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Old 05-10-2013, 01:38 AM   #15
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Default Re: Frazier - Was he any less motivated for...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post
Yeah. The clinching from Ali has always gotten to me a little. At least he was skillful with it, enough so not to get points deducted.

But he still did it to get through quite a few fights, and to wear fighters down considerably in others. But he was Ali... He could and did get away with a lot.
A lot of the time he didn't even "clinch" against Frazier just yanked his head down and leaned on him.
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