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Old 08-17-2007, 04:00 PM   #91
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Default Re: Did Marcanio duck Patterson?

He still chase after Ingo in the rematch and the 3rd fight. And EVEN than Ingo put him down. I dont think Patterson learn much from thsos 3 bouts. And when he fought Liston, he charge head first. No boxing no nothing. Just trying to out slug Liston. And the rematch?? Patterson charge head first AGAIN. In the 1950's, Patterson would have done the same to Marciano. Cus was teaching Patterson to be like Tyson. During the 60's Patterson had a change in styles.
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Old 08-17-2007, 04:14 PM   #92
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Default Re: Did Marcanio duck Patterson?

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Originally Posted by Bill1234
God...KTFO is an idiot. He knows nothing pre 2000. Marciano was an aging fighter when he fought Moore. Moore had great heart. He told the ref not to stop because he wanted to go down like a champion. And he did. Marciano didn't duck Patterson even the slightest bit. I saw some footage on a documentary on Marciano, of when Marciano retired. He said "My wife made me announce that I am retiring before May of this year..." That was on April 27th, 1956. Marciano in the Moore and ****ell fights, was much slower, and didn't have the work rate he once had. Charlie Goldman also changed his style a little bit. He knew that if he changed Marciano style a little, that Marciano wouldn't hit as hard, but he would be more awkward to hit. Also, about Marciano fighting hand picked oppenents, in the begining of his career he was fighting guys that were supposed to beat him. The promoter even admitted it. Marciano fought everyone, and he knocked them out.
good post
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Old 08-17-2007, 04:16 PM   #93
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Default Re: Did Marcanio duck Patterson?

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Originally Posted by Duodenum
As you've also read Skehan's biography, there's no need for me to bother rehashing it here. One of the books in my library is the one Marciano and Goldman published on boxing and bodybuilding 50 years ago. If you also have that one, then you already know what Charley Goldman wrote in, PART FOUR: Champion against Champion, Chapter 20-How We Would Whip Floyd Patterson. Although a fancifully imaginative account of how it would go, narrated primarily for entertainment purposes, it is revealing, insofar as Goldman understands Rocky's strengths and weaknesses as compared to Floyd's. He also reminds his readers that he went on record as accurately predicting Patterson would defeat Moore for the vacated title.

If Rocky had decided to continue fighting, then Patterson would have been challenging Moore for his LHW championship.

Good post

In 1955 and 1956, the heavyweight division was deader than an elephant graveyard. Archie Moore was that era's master of self-promotion among the top challengers, and there really wasn't anywhere else Rocky could have gone with the title at that point. Norris and the IBC had brought the sport to it's lowest point (until Griffith/Paret III, which brought boxing to a new low, only to be surpassed by the current moribund subterrean sinkhole produced by the 12 round era).

In Johansson, Patterson only had to deal with a lethal right. With Rocky, he'd have to contend with the hook as well. With Marciano's power, if Floyd had been able to get back up, he would have been getting bounced worse than he did when Ingo dethroned him. Patterson would have probably been scared silly to face him. It would have been a preview of Liston.
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Old 08-17-2007, 04:17 PM   #94
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Default Re: Did Marcanio duck Patterson?

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Originally Posted by Dempsey1238
He still chase after Ingo in the rematch and the 3rd fight. And EVEN than Ingo put him down. I dont think Patterson learn much from thsos 3 bouts. And when he fought Liston, he charge head first. No boxing no nothing. Just trying to out slug Liston. And the rematch?? Patterson charge head first AGAIN. In the 1950's, Patterson would have done the same to Marciano. Cus was teaching Patterson to be like Tyson. During the 60's Patterson had a change in styles.
Right. Ali said Floyd had the best skills of any boxer he faced, but the smartest performance of his career may have come against Chuvalo. He also originally won the title in part because of the most dreadful performance of Moore's career. He couldn't have survived fighting Rocky like that.
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Old 08-17-2007, 04:38 PM   #95
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Default Re: Did Marcanio duck Patterson?

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Originally Posted by tobkhan
Bullshit. Most of Patterson´s knockdowns were when he was off-balance while jumping in with the left hook that has nothing to do with chin. Beeing hurt has something to do with chin, knockdowns only if you´re hurt.
I believe you're talking bollocks my friend. Patterson had very good balance and footwork. The knockdowns weren't down to being off balance they were down to Patterson's biggest and well documanted weakness his chin. Plain and simple.
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:13 PM   #96
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Default Re: Did Marcanio duck Patterson?

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Originally Posted by Bill1234
He cracked it real good in 8 in the rematch though. Charles had a solid chin too.
No he didn't. If Charles had a solid chin then so did Patterson had just as good a chin as Ezz, if not better. If Marciano had a hard time putting away Charles, he could definetely have a hard time putting away Patterson as well.
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:28 PM   #97
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Default Re: Did Marcanio duck Patterson?

Charles was only ko ONE time before he face Marciano. Charles was not a easy guy to put away.
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:38 PM   #98
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Default Re: Did Marcanio duck Patterson?

Patterson was actually down at least 21 times that I know of:

once against a journeyman in an early fight
once against Pete Rademacher
once against Roy Harris
nine times against Johansson
four times against Liston
once against Ali
three times against Quarry
once against Bonavena
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Old 08-17-2007, 05:39 PM   #99
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Default Re: Did Marcanio duck Patterson?

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Originally Posted by Dempsey1238
Charles was only ko ONE time before he face Marciano. Charles was not a easy guy to put away.
Yes, but how many truley good heavyweights did he fight, and in the primes of their career's? A lot of people rip Patterson a new asshole for getting KO'd in one by Liston, but did Charles really ever fight a puncher of liston's calibur, except for Marciano who dusted him?
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Old 08-17-2007, 06:10 PM   #100
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Default Re: Did Marcanio duck Patterson?

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Originally Posted by tobkhan
And in how many of these fights he got up?
Doesn't mean he had a good chin. It just means he had heart.
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Old 08-17-2007, 06:16 PM   #101
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Default Re: Did Marcanio duck Patterson?

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Originally Posted by tobkhan
Like i explained i disagree with that one. Getting knocked down has nothing to do with chin, beeing hurt has.
Getting knocked down has everything to do with your chin. Most of the time falling to the canvass is an involuntary reflex, the result of getting clocked good on the chin. While a fighter can be hurt and get stopped on his feet.
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Old 08-17-2007, 06:17 PM   #102
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Default Re: Did Marcanio duck Patterson?

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Originally Posted by Sweet Science
Getting knocked down has everything to do with your chin. Most of the time falling to the canvass is a involuntary reflex, the result of getting clocked good on the chin.
Exactly.
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Old 08-17-2007, 06:57 PM   #103
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Default Re: Did Marcanio duck Patterson?

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Originally Posted by C. M. Clay II
No he didn't. If Charles had a solid chin then so did Patterson had just as good a chin as Ezz, if not better. If Marciano had a hard time putting away Charles, he could definetely have a hard time putting away Patterson as well.
Charles had a good chin in every division he fought in including Heavy, Jimmy Ellis was dropped as a middleweight but stood up in the heavy division until he met Joe Frazier and took a lot of shots to the head and body, Patterson had a lot of skills but had trouble with a shot to the head, He was blasted by Ingo,Sonny, and used his experience and skills with the amatuerish heavys of the 70's but was still dropped a lot
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Old 08-18-2007, 12:21 AM   #104
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Default Re: Did Marcanio duck Patterson?

Why would anyone duck Patterson? The way I hear it, Patterson was known for all the ducking
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Old 08-18-2007, 12:23 AM   #105
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Default Re: Did Marcanio duck Patterson?

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Originally Posted by Sweet Science
Getting knocked down has everything to do with your chin. Most of the time falling to the canvass is an involuntary reflex, the result of getting clocked good on the chin. While a fighter can be hurt and get stopped on his feet.
Exactly Science. That's the reason I sometimes knock Leonard
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