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Old 06-23-2007, 02:04 PM   #16
la-califa
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Default Re: Whitaker Deserves Super Credit.....

Yes, you somewhat agree with my opinoins, Nelson's style was taylor made for Whitaker. But what I mean by speed is the Nelson who swarmed all over Sanchez & came close and showed tremendous heart. There is a short window for that kind of skill. & that's the kind of fighter it would have taken to be effective against Whitaker. By that time Nelson learned to box effectively & abandoned the windmill style to a degree. But a better boxer as say Whitaker made Nelson an easy target. Chavez: If you watch the Whitaker fight he didn't even throw as many punches as a prime Chavez. Could have been due to Whitaker or remember Chavez already had over a hundred fights under his belt. & Frankie Randall finished him off not too long afterward. Would Randall had stood a chance against a prime Chavez? Not taking anything away from Whitaker. It was a brilliant performance & he deseved the win.
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Old 06-23-2007, 03:00 PM   #17
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Default Re: Whitaker Deserves Super Credit.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by la-califa
Yes, you somewhat agree with my opinoins, Nelson's style was taylor made for Whitaker. But what I mean by speed is the Nelson who swarmed all over Sanchez & came close and showed tremendous heart. There is a short window for that kind of skill. & that's the kind of fighter it would have taken to be effective against Whitaker. By that time Nelson learned to box effectively & abandoned the windmill style to a degree. But a better boxer as say Whitaker made Nelson an easy target. Chavez: If you watch the Whitaker fight he didn't even throw as many punches as a prime Chavez. Could have been due to Whitaker or remember Chavez already had over a hundred fights under his belt. & Frankie Randall finished him off not too long afterward. Would Randall had stood a chance against a prime Chavez? Not taking anything away from Whitaker. It was a brilliant performance & he deseved the win.
So you think the younger, more unrefined Nelson stands a better chance? Yeah maybe. The few rounds he did win came in the second half of the fight where he threw caution to the wind and swung from the rafters.

Just on Chavez's activity, I don't think he was ever a big volume puncher, and though I don't have any punch stats from his early days, its interesting to note that he threw 634 punches against Meldrick Taylor and 637 punches against Pernell Whitaker.

Whitaker I know in his lightweight days would often throw 1000 punches per fight in a 12 round fight, but against Chavez threw 790. His punch output as a whole declined as he went to welterweight, but against Chavez I'd say it was one of the highest of his welterweight career.
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Old 06-23-2007, 07:45 PM   #18
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Default Re: Whitaker Deserves Super Credit.....

No version of Nelson would have stood a chance against Whitaker at 130. Whitaker has a very underrated beard and Nelson's (The much smaller man) only chance is by big punch, which at this weight he don't have.
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Old 06-23-2007, 08:02 PM   #19
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Default Re: Whitaker Deserves Super Credit.....

Whitaker was just flat out better than Nelson imo.

I doubt he has many problems beating him even in a p4p sense.
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Old 06-23-2007, 08:25 PM   #20
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Default Re: Whitaker Deserves Super Credit.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantequilla
Whitaker was just flat out better than Nelson imo.

I doubt he has many problems beating him even in a p4p sense.
I have great respect for Nelson, but i will agree here. Whitaker is even better P4P and that's saying something.
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Old 06-24-2007, 11:45 AM   #21
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Default Re: Whitaker Deserves Super Credit.....

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Originally Posted by la-califa
NO doubt Whitaker was the best fighter of HIS era. But to say he was more dominant than Sugar Ray Leonard is a bit of a stretch... Put Whitaker in the ring against Duran that night in Montreal... Or against Thomas Hearns in Sept. of '81.
leonard was lucky to be at the right place at the right time.

ali had just been beaten badly by holmes around the time the wold was looking for a idol they found a young olympian fighting pro. if he was fighting $3,000 on his debut you know he was pushed.

he had some good wins but was totally dismissed by an old(duran was an old fighter by now) heavy duran who wasnt used to the wieght like later years. and totally took him apart.

in the rematch it was super close only ray won the last round on a jab and run.

in the hearns fight he was beaten up badly and was to worried to go foreward to get smacked by the right hand. in the later rounds he tapped him on the chin and hearns did his ali impressions....the stoppage was bullshit hearns was tired but he should be warned before they stop it.

so right now he has been beaten up by duran and was being outboxed by hearns.
when he fought hagler it was maybe razor thin and only won the last 60 secounds of the round.

and in that he didnt give hagler a rematch. he totally dodged big comp and used boxing politics to get his way....a year before the hearns-leonard I fighthearns was calling him out while ra ywas saying only if the money is right

Last edited by Vantage_West; 06-24-2007 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 06-24-2007, 12:24 PM   #22
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Default Re: Whitaker Deserves Super Credit.....

Terrible post.
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Old 06-24-2007, 01:01 PM   #23
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Default Re: Whitaker Deserves Super Credit.....

Sweet Pea was just inducted into the IBHOF, along with Duran, as soon as he became eligible. How much more credit can he get?
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Old 06-24-2007, 10:04 PM   #24
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Default Re: Whitaker Deserves Super Credit.....

Nicely Put. No doubt Sweet Pea deserves the Honor
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Old 06-24-2007, 10:15 PM   #25
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Default Re: Whitaker Deserves Super Credit.....

If Barry McGuigan can get into the Hall of Fame, anyone can. He won the world title against Pedroza, and lost it after two or there defenses. He held the WBA featherweight title for a year.

I'm not knocking Whitaker, he's one of my favourite fighters of all time. Only the very special fighters should be inducted, fighters like Robinson, Ali, Pep, Duran, Whitaker, etc.
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Old 06-24-2007, 10:19 PM   #26
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Default Re: Whitaker Deserves Super Credit.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweet_scientist
So you think the younger, more unrefined Nelson stands a better chance? Yeah maybe. The few rounds he did win came in the second half of the fight where he threw caution to the wind and swung from the rafters.

Just on Chavez's activity, I don't think he was ever a big volume puncher, and though I don't have any punch stats from his early days, its interesting to note that he threw 634 punches against Meldrick Taylor and 637 punches against Pernell Whitaker.

Whitaker I know in his lightweight days would often throw 1000 punches per fight in a 12 round fight, but against Chavez threw 790. His punch output as a whole declined as he went to welterweight, but against Chavez I'd say it was one of the highest of his welterweight
career.
Whitaker did stand more flat-footed as a welterweight, and while his overall punch activity dropped, he did get off with more power punches. Especially against McGirt in the rematch, Jacobs, and both the Rivera fights.
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Old 06-24-2007, 10:20 PM   #27
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Default Re: Whitaker Deserves Super Credit.....

Yes I agree, I read somewhere that there has to be an X amount of inductees every year. That is why some fighters are being considered which normally would not be. By the way is Pedroza in?
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Old 06-24-2007, 10:36 PM   #28
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Default Re: Whitaker Deserves Super Credit.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by la-califa
Yes I agree, I read somewhere that there has to be an X amount of inductees every year. That is why some fighters are being considered which normally would not be. By the way is Pedroza in?
Yes. Im sure he got inducted in the mid-late 90's or early early 2000's.
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Old 06-24-2007, 10:39 PM   #29
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Default Re: Whitaker Deserves Super Credit.....

Good, Then my faith is renewed, Greatness IS still recognized.
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Old 06-24-2007, 10:42 PM   #30
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Default Re: Whitaker Deserves Super Credit.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbi
Whitaker did stand more flat-footed as a welterweight, and while his overall punch activity dropped, he did get off with more power punches. Especially against McGirt in the rematch, Jacobs, and both the Rivera fights.
He was more flat footed, no doubt on that, not sure he got off on MORE power punches though. He was throwing quite a few power shots against the likes of Layne, Mayweather, Paez, Diaz, Haugen, Nazario, Lomeli, Pendleton at lightweight.
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