boxing
Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Australian Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-15-2009, 07:27 AM   #46
Hmmm
:P
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,211
vCash: 1394
Default Re: Arum says if he cant get Sturm or Abraham for Pavlik he'd turn to Mundine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonMcS View Post
I see your point SMF, but to me becoming a belt holder occurs when you beat someone for the title, not because the 'Super' champ has vacated. The WBA has become a joke with their multiple belts. I can't see how anyone can proclaim themselves to be the champ because the original belt holder is off unifying or whatever, its a crock. That was the whole idea of mandatories.
Although I can see the reasoning behing interim champs, at the end of the day there should be just the original champ, whether he is on hiatus or whatever. Wasn't it not too long ago the WBA had three belt holders in the same division fighting?
So lets assume we're not talking about Mundine here. Lets speak in general terms that we have a good world prospect fighter. The champ retires and makes him the title holder. When would this person become champ to you?? after his 1st defense? after the second? was it just pure bad luck that he wasnt able to challenge for the title and he holds the title and will forever be considered as not the title holder?
Hmmm is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 02-15-2009, 07:28 AM   #47
smellmyfinger
tiger
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: sydney, AUS
Posts: 396
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Arum says if he cant get Sturm or Abraham for Pavlik he'd turn to Mundine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonMcS View Post
I'm not aware of the timing of retirements etc and I can't spare 5 secs out of my schedule to check boxrec but if thats the case, to me, I couldn't recognise Mundine as the champ even if Ottke had retired, his next fight vs a top contender should have been for the recognised championship. If that was indeed Siacca then his title claim does look pretty shaky.

.
I understand your thinking, and part of me agrees, but while his hold on the title was shaky, he did hold it for a short time, and that can never be taken away.

Well i might as well go to bed, i think if i wait for some sort of decent argument from Shane, ill be waiting up for months.

Keep the insults coming Shane, its all u got champ. Why dont u take a leaf out of some of the others books. They havent agreed with me so they put reasons why, yet all u do is name call because u havent got the brain capacity to put an argument forward.

Whether im right or wrong doesnt really matter, your lack of ability to argue your view is embarrassing. And for the record i am right, Mundine was a legit World Champ for a short time, its in the record books.
smellmyfinger is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2009, 07:30 AM   #48
smellmyfinger
tiger
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: sydney, AUS
Posts: 396
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Arum says if he cant get Sturm or Abraham for Pavlik he'd turn to Mundine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hmmm View Post
So lets assume we're not talking about Mundine here. Lets speak in general terms that we have a good world prospect fighter. The champ retires and makes him the title holder. When would this person become champ to you?? after his 1st defense? after the second? was it just pure bad luck that he wasnt able to challenge for the title and he holds the title and will forever be considered as not the title holder?
All good questions. And i do feel people need to do exactly that when thinking about Mundine. Pretend its someone else, someone u like, does your view change? Perhaps it does, perhaps not.

Good post Hmmm
smellmyfinger is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2009, 07:32 AM   #49
shanemfr
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,609
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Arum says if he cant get Sturm or Abraham for Pavlik he'd turn to Mundine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smellmyfinger View Post
I understand your thinking, and part of me agrees, but while his hold on the title was shaky, he did hold it for a short time, and that can never be taken away.

Well i might as well go to bed, i think if i wait for some sort of decent argument from Shane, ill be waiting up for months.

Keep the insults coming Shane, its all u got champ. Why dont u take a leaf out of some of the others books. They havent agreed with me so they put reasons why, yet all u do is name call because u havent got the brain capacity to put an argument forward.

Whether im right or wrong doesnt really matter, your lack of ability to argue your view is embarrassing. And for the record i am right, Mundine was a legit World Champ for a short time, its in the record books.
jesus now you're obsessed with me as well, you go dream about Mundine and learn about boxing all you have is the Mundine subject ffs, typical hugger.
shanemfr is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2009, 07:40 AM   #50
smellmyfinger
tiger
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: sydney, AUS
Posts: 396
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Arum says if he cant get Sturm or Abraham for Pavlik he'd turn to Mundine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shanemfr View Post
jesus now you're obsessed with me as well, you go dream about Mundine and learn about boxing all you have is the Mundine subject ffs, typical hugger.
ahh, u have nothing again. And your wrong again. Im no nuthugger. I WAS a supporter of Mundine, but he's lost me the last 18 months. He can get me back if he fights and beats Sturm, but if he takes on Green, then i hope Green ko's him. Hardly a nuthugger.

Please Shane, i beg u, give me something. You've got absolutley nothing u poor fool.

U call me an idiot, u call me a ****, u call me a dumbass, and all i ask is for u to give me a decent argument, hardly call that being obsessed. And still, u offer nothing. Its getting embarrassing.
smellmyfinger is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2009, 07:44 AM   #51
LeonMcS
The Mayor of Kronkton
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: GAME MATCH POINT
Posts: 6,073
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Arum says if he cant get Sturm or Abraham for Pavlik he'd turn to Mundine.

Hmmm, the thing is, Ottke was the original champ. Without him moving up to 'Super' champ status, Mundine would never have had the oppurtunity to fight for the second tier title.
Yes, I agree that in the (WBA) record books he will then become the champ, but at what point did he beat the original belt holder?
Its for instances like these that the term of 'paper champ' was invented. He didn't beat the belt holder. If a belt becomes vacant then a match is arranged between two contenders. The winner of that then becomes the champ, ok, he is not the linear champ but he has done all that could be done in that instance. Its this stupid and greedy peice of rulemaking by the WBA that allows this **** to happen in the first place.
Yes, to me, if a guy who grabs a vacant belt makes a successful defence against a contender then in my eyes at least i would recognise him as the champ. This didn't happen in this case, without me taking the valuable 5 seconds to check boxrec. Its irrelevant if its Mundine or not, I would think this way no matter who the person was. To me, belts are only won in the ring, not courts or otherwise.
In a perfect world Mundine would have ben the #1 contender, a spot he earned. If the champ has retired he would then fight someone in say the top 5 for the vacant championship.
The WBA in my eyes has lost the credibilty that once saw it as one of the big three, its now only living off its past name as a belt of any credibilty.
Yes, it may have been bad luck that Mundine wasn't able to challenge the man who had the title, but because he retired and Mundine was the 'regular' champ, a ridiculous position, doesn't suddenly make him the belt holder, especially without beating anybody.
LeonMcS is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2009, 07:44 AM   #52
mundinechamp
Journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 90
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Arum says if he cant get Sturm or Abraham for Pavlik he'd turn to Mundine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hmmm View Post
So lets assume we're not talking about Mundine here. Lets speak in general terms that we have a good world prospect fighter. The champ retires and makes him the title holder. When would this person become champ to you?? after his 1st defense? after the second? was it just pure bad luck that he wasnt able to challenge for the title and he holds the title and will forever be considered as not the title holder?
Lovemore N'Dou is a good example of this. He beat Ben Rabah and later due to Hatton vacating his belt, that fight was considered a world title bout which elevated him to IBF Welterweight Champ. There are little qualms on this forum about N'Dou being a legit champ.
mundinechamp is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2009, 07:46 AM   #53
shanemfr
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,609
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Arum says if he cant get Sturm or Abraham for Pavlik he'd turn to Mundine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smellmyfinger View Post
ahh, u have nothing again. And your wrong again. Im no nuthugger. I WAS a supporter of Mundine, but he's lost me the last 18 months. He can get me back if he fights and beats Sturm, but if he takes on Green, then i hope Green ko's him. Hardly a nuthugger.

Please Shane, i beg u, give me something. You've got absolutley nothing u poor fool.

U call me an idiot, u call me a ****, u call me a dumbass, and all i ask is for u to give me a decent argument, hardly call that being obsessed. And still, u offer nothing. Its getting embarrassing.
He won't beat sturm in Germany, he has almost no chance of knocking him out with his loss of power at 160
shanemfr is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2009, 07:47 AM   #54
smellmyfinger
tiger
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: sydney, AUS
Posts: 396
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Arum says if he cant get Sturm or Abraham for Pavlik he'd turn to Mundine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonMcS View Post
Hmmm, the thing is, Ottke was the original champ. Without him moving up to 'Super' champ status, Mundine would never have had the oppurtunity to fight for the second tier title.
Yes, I agree that in the (WBA) record books he will then become the champ, but at what point did he beat the original belt holder?
Its for instances like these that the term of 'paper champ' was invented. He didn't beat the belt holder. If a belt becomes vacant then a match is arranged between two contenders. The winner of that then becomes the champ, ok, he is not the linear champ but he has done all that could be done in that instance. Its this stupid and greedy peice of rulemaking by the WBA that allows this **** to happen in the first place.
Yes, to me, if a guy who grabs a vacant belt makes a successful defence against a contender then in my eyes at least i would recognise him as the champ. This didn't happen in this case, without me taking the valuable 5 seconds to check boxrec. Its irrelevant if its Mundine or not, I would think this way no matter who the person was. To me, belts are only won in the ring, not courts or otherwise.
In a perfect world Mundine would have ben the #1 contender, a spot he earned. If the champ has retired he would then fight someone in say the top 5 for the vacant championship.
The WBA in my eyes has lost the credibilty that once saw it as one of the big three, its now only living off its past name as a belt of any credibilty.
Yes, it may have been bad luck that Mundine wasn't able to challenge the man who had the title, but because he retired and Mundine was the 'regular' champ, a ridiculous position, doesn't suddenly make him the belt holder, especially without beating anybody.
Good point Leon, without the Super champ **** the WBA do, Mundine would not have been the champ when Ottke retired.
smellmyfinger is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2009, 07:49 AM   #55
smellmyfinger
tiger
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: sydney, AUS
Posts: 396
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Arum says if he cant get Sturm or Abraham for Pavlik he'd turn to Mundine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shanemfr View Post
He won't beat sturm in Germany, he has almost no chance of knocking him out with his loss of power at 160

I agree. I think his only chance of beating Sturm is to get GBP to entice Sturm to fight him in the states as a main support to a big fight. Then he may win a close decision.
smellmyfinger is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2009, 07:53 AM   #56
shanemfr
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,609
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Arum says if he cant get Sturm or Abraham for Pavlik he'd turn to Mundine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smellmyfinger View Post
I agree. I think his only chance of beating Sturm is to get GBP to entice Sturm to fight him in the states as a main support to a big fight. Then he may win a close decision.
I doubt Sturm will fight on a GBP promoted cars after the way he was robbed against Oscar... it will happen in Germany if it does happen, and thats a big if when it comes to Mundine fighting someone that isnt over 35 these days.
shanemfr is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2009, 07:54 AM   #57
LeonMcS
The Mayor of Kronkton
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: GAME MATCH POINT
Posts: 6,073
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Arum says if he cant get Sturm or Abraham for Pavlik he'd turn to Mundine.

I see where your coming from mate and I don't think we'll agree, but its good to argue without resorting to the usual bull****. Replace WBA with IBF or WBC (not a great example, are any of them) and this would probably not have happened.
But your right, at the end of the day its in the books and you can can technically argue that you're correct, which you are.
And with the N'dou-rabah point, imo its ludicrous that a few weeks after a bout you can turn around and say 'Oh, by the way, that was for a title.'.
yes, maybe Hatton was selfish or whatever, but at the end of the day, when those two fought, Hatton was the belt holder when they fought. That he retired later was just bad luck/timing. ****ty, yes it was, but thats how it is.
LeonMcS is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2009, 07:56 AM   #58
smellmyfinger
tiger
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: sydney, AUS
Posts: 396
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Arum says if he cant get Sturm or Abraham for Pavlik he'd turn to Mundine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shanemfr View Post
I doubt Sturm will fight on a GBP promoted cars after the way he was robbed against Oscar... it will happen in Germany if it does happen, and thats a big if when it comes to Mundine fighting someone that isnt over 35 these days.
I think Mundine is crazy to go to Germany. He'll lose, so if he's finally going to step up and lose, why not make it worthwhile and lose to Pavlik in the US? A loss to Pavlik is more respectable than a loss to Sturm.
smellmyfinger is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2009, 07:59 AM   #59
smellmyfinger
tiger
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: sydney, AUS
Posts: 396
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Arum says if he cant get Sturm or Abraham for Pavlik he'd turn to Mundine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonMcS View Post
I see where your coming from mate and I don't think we'll agree, but its good to argue without resorting to the usual bull****. Replace WBA with IBF or WBC (not a great example, are any of them) and this would probably not have happened.
But your right, at the end of the day its in the books and you can can technically argue that you're correct, which you are.
And with the N'dou-rabah point, imo its ludicrous that a few weeks after a bout you can turn around and say 'Oh, by the way, that was for a title.'.
yes, maybe Hatton was selfish or whatever, but at the end of the day, when those two fought, Hatton was the belt holder when they fought. That he retired later was just bad luck/timing. ****ty, yes it was, but thats how it is.
smellmyfinger is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2009, 07:59 AM   #60
shanemfr
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,609
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Arum says if he cant get Sturm or Abraham for Pavlik he'd turn to Mundine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smellmyfinger View Post
I think Mundine is crazy to go to Germany. He'll lose, so if he's finally going to step up and lose, why not make it worthwhile and lose to Pavlik in the US? A loss to Pavlik is more respectable than a loss to Sturm.
Man he proved he doesn't care about respect the way he ran from a kessler rematch, he thought sturm would be the easiest way to a another title but i think he is 2nd guessing himsled about that now.
shanemfr is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Australian Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump






All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2015