Muhammad Ali - Into The Mid 80's....

[Bummy Davis]

Ali fought a little too long and guys like Page and Dokes had speed as well as power, he was lucky he fought Holmes and Berbick and Spinks, they were not really hard punchers (and I think Holmes wanted to stop Ali but not kill him) Ali did not have the ability to move and run and could not really rope a dope.....Guys like Coetzee,Page,and Dokes may have put a real hurting on him, although Coetzee was far less skilled the power would be a hard thing for Ali to overcome and could have gotten hurt

[Dempsey1238]

This is the part when Ali becomes GOD, when they say a near 40 year old Ali, beating the likes of Page, Berbick and others.

Hell he could not even get past Berbick, and he was in better shape there, than he was vs Holmes.

[mr. magoo]

Originally Posted by Dempsey1238

This is the part when Ali becomes GOD, when they say a near 40 year old Ali, beating the likes of Page, Berdick and others.

Hell he could not even get past Berdick, and he was in better shape there, than he was vs Holmes.

I think that when some say they would pick a 40 year old Ali to beat Berbick or Page, they generally mean for conversation purposes, in the event he was healthy

[Dempsey1238]

I dont see it even if he was in good health. Speed gone, reflex's gone, He would be like today's Roy Jones Jr, with a chin. Sure he get out pointed, and not knock out. But I cant see Ali even in good health pull that off.
Only very few fighters pull what a Archie Moore or George Foreman or even a Hopkins did.

Louis, Dempsey, Jeff, Sullivan, ete all face defeat once they started hitting there 30's to late 30's. I dont think Ali would pull back the clock here.

[Longhhorn71]

When I left the closed circuit fight site.....after the Foreman-Ali fight, I told myself:
"Ali won the battle....but lost the war".

After the FOTC and Foreman-Ali....you could see what his "defense" was going to be in the future.

[TBooze]

Originally Posted by Russell

A potentially strange (to some) what if scenario prompted by me being surprised that Ali's last fight against Berbick took place in almost 82'. Even at 236 pounds he looked very respectable after 14 months of inactivity.

Lets say Ali avoids some of his extremely hard late career fights that may have hastened his health issues, like the Shaver's and Holmes fights, maybe even Frazier III.

As far as I know a Ali comebacks were being talked about well into the mid 80's.

I'm not saying Ali would rule the division, but cut out some of his most taxing, damaging fights and how long could he have fought on? How does he fare against embryo versions of many 80's up and coming 80's fighters?

What's the most he could accomplish fighting on until the mid 80's if his health wasn't deteriorating as quickly as it was because of the absence of a few of his most difficult fights?

You are a sick, sick pup Russell, to even have the thought!

I know there was still Ali comeback spin in 86 (Ali seen helping Whitherspoon train against Bruno), but come on!!!!!

[groove]

Ali had the start of parkinsons as far back as the late 70s - a reason why Ferdie Pacheco left the team after the Shavers fight - he knew something was very wrong but not what it was. He was diagnosed with Parkinsons later but he shouldn't have been fighting against holmes or berbick.

[AnthonyJ74]

Ali looked horrible against Berbick - clumsy, uncoordinated, no power. I'm sure he was sick already, but damn, that was a stinker of a fight. Ali should have quit after Spinks II........

[ThinBlack]

At some point, somebody would get to him, either ex-sparring partners Tony Tubbs, or Michael Dokes, but most likely fellow Louisville native Greg Page.

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by Russell

A potentially strange (to some) what if scenario prompted by me being surprised that Ali's last fight against Berbick took place in almost 82'. Even at 236 pounds he looked very respectable after 14 months of inactivity.

Lets say Ali avoids some of his extremely hard late career fights that may have hastened his health issues, like the Shaver's and Holmes fights, maybe even Frazier III.

As far as I know a Ali comebacks were being talked about well into the mid 80's.

I'm not saying Ali would rule the division, but cut out some of his most taxing, damaging fights and how long could he have fought on? How does he fare against embryo versions of many 80's up and coming 80's fighters?

What's the most he could accomplish fighting on until the mid 80's if his health wasn't deteriorating as quickly as it was because of the absence of a few of his most difficult fights?

Let's tweak this a bit. Say Ali had retired in '75,thus not taking the punishment of his latter bouts,and was spared the Parkinsons.


Ali comes back in 1977 (and providing the heavyweight division plays out as in real time) and with Foreman and Frazier retired,Ken Norton is champion. Muhammad has a tune up fight against Scott Le Doux,whom he stops by the ninth round. Then we have Ali-Norton III (one year later than in real time) Norton succesfully defends his title,beating Ali around nine rounds to six. Muhammad realises that he's over the hill and retires again. Three years later he returns to organise a veteran's tournament that includes himself,Joe Frazier and Norton.

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by mr. magoo

I think that when some say they would pick a 40 year old Ali to beat Berbick or Page, they generally mean for conversation purposes, in the event he was healthy

Ali would definitley have beaten quite a few around that time if he HAD have been healthy.