Was Virgil Hill/Michalczewski Linear Champ at 175? Look at this timeline

[PowerPuncher]

Assuming 1 and 2 meeting, Note Roy Jones is WBC champion before any unification fights, Roy Jones is considered P4P no1 and a 175lber, isn't RJJ a top2 175lb fighter?

10th August 1996 - Rochiagani is arguably robbed against Michalczewski in a WBO defense

22nd November 1996 - Roy Jones-McCallum WBC title

23rd November 1996 - Hill-Maske IBF-WBA unification - how can both claim 1 and 2 spots in the division despite the face Roy Jones, Michalczewski, McCallum and Tiozo were all clearly as proven at the weight?

21st March 1997 - Griffin-JOnes Jr 1 - Jones is controversally disqualified

13th June 1997 - Michalczewski-Hill - can Hill and Michalczewski claim certain no1 and no2 status when the WBC champion has wins over Jones Jr/Toney and Jones Jr is seemingly the best in the division?

7th August 1997 - Jones-Griffin 2 - Jones KO1

25th April 1998 - Jones-Hill - Jones KO4

October 2003 - DM loses to Gonzalez

November 2003 - Roy Jones beats Tarver, Jones and Tarver are now considered 1 and 2 at 175 after Gonzalez beats DM

Conclusions -

1. Neither Hill or Michalczewski were ever linear champions because they never beat the other no1/no2 in Roy Jones/Griffin when they were at their peak

2. No complete unification of WBC/WBA/IBF was made except for Jones although the lineage of WBA/IBF belts was similtanously owned by DM

3. The only time the undiputed no1 and no2 fought was in 2003 when Jones faced Tarver

[mr. magoo]

I don't know if Hill was ever a lineal champ persay, but I think there were sporatic periods between 1989 -1996 when he was generally considered by most as the best lightheavyweight in the division. This time line was briefly interrupted of course, whith Hill's loss to Hearns in 1991.

[jaffay]

October 2003 - DM loses to Gonzalez - Michalczewski was shot at that time. He was spending more time making business and in the clubs than in the gym.

All DM haters are reminding his last two fights, neglecting his former achievments and calling him "euro bum". Watch Michalczewski-Hill, then make a opinion.

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by mr. magoo

I don't know if Hill was ever a lineal champ persay, but I think there were sporatic periods between 1989 -1996 when he was generally considered by most as the best lightheavyweight in the division. This time line was briefly interrupted of course, whith Hill's loss to Hearns in 1991.

Hill is an underrated champion but I see no period where he claimed linear status, his run from Hearns-Maske has pretty poor resume, aside from an SD over a 23yo pre prime Tiozzo

The general claim is Hill was linear when he beat Maske, I don't see how that can be so when both would need to be 1 and 2 and you have the P4P no1 as the WBC champ in your division

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by jaffay

October 2003 - DM loses to Gonzalez - Michalczewski was shot at that time. He was spending more time making business and in the clubs than in the gym.

All DM haters are reminding his last two fights, neglecting his former achievments and calling him "euro bum". Watch Michalczewski-Hill, then make a opinion.

I'm not critisising Michalczewski for this loss, I am stating he is no longer top2, hence Tarver-Jones was for the linear title as they were both 1 and 2 after DM lost to Gonzalez and there is no way Gonzalez is top2

[mr. magoo]

Originally Posted by jaffay

October 2003
Watch Michalczewski-Hill, then make a opinion.

In all fairness, I think Hill was well on the decline by the time he fought DM.

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by mr. magoo

In all fairness, I think Hill was well on the decline by the time he fought DM.

Probably although still had enough left to relieve Tiozzo of his WBA cruser belt, who in turn was the other top LHW of 1996

[mr. magoo]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Probably although still had enough left to relieve Tiozzo of his WBA cruser belt, who in turn was the other top LHW of 1996

No argument here,

Hill was still one of the top dogs in 1997. Was he at his optimal peak? I doubt it.

[sitiyzal]

Garbage thread.

[mr. magoo]

Originally Posted by sitiyzal

Garbage thread.

Then why bother commenting?

[TBooze]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Assuming 1 and 2 meeting, Note Roy Jones is WBC champion before any unification fights, Roy Jones is considered P4P no1 and a 175lber, isn't RJJ a top2 175lb fighter?

10th August 1996 - Rochiagani is arguably robbed against Michalczewski in a WBO defense

22nd November 1996 - Roy Jones-McCallum WBC title

23rd November 1996 - Hill-Maske IBF-WBA unification - how can both claim 1 and 2 spots in the division despite the face Roy Jones, Michalczewski, McCallum and Tiozo were all clearly as proven at the weight?

Conclusions -

1. Neither Hill or Michalczewski were ever linear champions because they never beat the other no1/no2 in Roy Jones/Griffin when they were at their peak

2. No complete unification of WBC/WBA/IBF was made except for Jones although the lineage of WBA/IBF belts was similtanously owned by DM

3. The only time the undiputed no1 and no2 fought was in 2003 when Jones faced Tarver

Good spin, but the flaw in your conclusions are Maske/Hill was made before Jones Jr fought at 175, thus the #1 and #2 fighters in the division fought a day after/same day (depending on time zones) Jones made his debut.

Hill won to become the Light Heavyweight World champion; Roy Jones and Michalczewski were #1 and #2 contenders as Maske retired.

[Mendoza]

Originally Posted by TBooze

Good spin, but the flaw in your conclusions are Maske/Hill was made before Jones Jr fought at 175, thus the #1 and #2 fighters in the division fought a day after/same day (depending on time zones) Jones made his debut.

Hill won to become the Light Heavyweight World champion; Roy Jones and Michalczewski were #1 and #2 contenders as Maske retired.

I was just going to say this.

[Minotauro]

Originally Posted by TBooze

Good spin, but the flaw in your conclusions are Maske/Hill was made before Jones Jr fought at 175, thus the #1 and #2 fighters in the division fought a day after/same day (depending on time zones) Jones made his debut.

Hill won to become the Light Heavyweight World champion; Roy Jones and Michalczewski were #1 and #2 contenders as Maske retired.

Exactly. Even if you think Jones was the "best" in the division he still wasn't the true champ. Tyson only became true champ when he beat Spinks even thought you could see he was number one. Same with Foreman even when he beat Moorer there were people in the division who I would regard as better but he was the true linear champion.

[My2Sense]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

23rd November 1996 - Hill-Maske IBF-WBA unification - how can both claim 1 and 2 spots in the division despite the face Roy Jones, Michalczewski, McCallum and Tiozo were all clearly as proven at the weight?

NONE of those fighters were anywhere near as "proven" as Hill and Maske at that weight. McCallum only held the title briefly and had already lost it on a big upset to Tiozzo, who himself had already lost to Hill; Roy then beat McCallum after that, which at best puts him on par with Tiozzo - in other words, below Hill. Dariusz was just a rising contender at best, barely known outside of Germany at this time.

Hill and Maske were the two most accomplished fighters currently at this weight, hands down. Maske had won his title from Prince Williams (considered the #1 or 2 fighter at the time), defended it twice against Rocchigiani. Hill was a two-time champion with a shitload of defenses under his belt, including one against the current co-champion Tiozzo. When Hill upset Maske, it meant that he took his place as the top-rated fighter in the division; and that, combined with his previous win over co-titlist Tiozzo, brought him general recognition as the lineal champion as well.

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

The only time the undiputed no1 and no2 fought was in 2003 when Jones faced Tarver

This completely contradicts your own logic. What about the fact that Adamek, Briggs, and Erdei were all on the way up at this time?

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by TBooze

Good spin, but the flaw in your conclusions are Maske/Hill was made before Jones Jr fought at 175, thus the #1 and #2 fighters in the division fought a day after/same day (depending on time zones) Jones made his debut.

Hill won to become the Light Heavyweight World champion; Roy Jones and Michalczewski were #1 and #2 contenders as Maske retired.

Its not a spin its a logical analysis of the facts. It doesn't matter when the fight was made, when it happened Jones was 1 or 2 and WBC champ. Jones Jr likely announced he would be fighting at 175 at the time Maske-Hill was made anyway. And even if Jones wasn't in the division what about McCallum/Tiozzo/Rochiagani anyway?