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Old 02-26-2009, 04:48 PM   #16
jaffay
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Default Re: Jacks Dempsey ranking - arguments

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Old 02-26-2009, 04:54 PM   #17
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Default Re: Jacks Dempsey ranking - arguments

Dempsey's ranking has suffered over time almost as much as Jeffries.

I remember watching a Dempsey biography where there was a table of boxing experts and or retired fighters, including Archie Moore.

When asked who was greater between Dempsey and Tunney, they ALL, without a seconds hesitation, chose Dempsey.

And these weren't Bert Sugar "experts". Aka idiots.

Last edited by Russell; 02-26-2009 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:03 PM   #18
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Default Re: Jacks Dempsey ranking - arguments

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Originally Posted by Russell View Post
Dempsey's ranking has suffered over time almost as much as Jeffries.

I remember watching a Dempsey biography where there was a table of boxing experts and or retired fighters, including Archie Moore.

When asked who was greater between Dempsey and Tunney, they ALL, without a seconds hesitation, chose Dempsey.

And these weren't Bert Sugar "experts". Aka idiots.
experts like?
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:04 PM   #19
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Default Re: Jacks Dempsey ranking - arguments

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Dempsey didn't ducked Wills. There were tickets printed for the Dempsey vs Wills clash. But white authorities didn't want another Jack Johnson and the fight was off.
It's arguable. I think the fight could have been made had Jack's management and Tex Rickard not been so dead-set against it. Kearns didn't want to lose his meal ticket and Rickard was just downright racist and still haunted by memories of Johnson-Jeffries. Had Dempsey really pushed for the bout, fired Kearns, and found a different promoter, it more than likely could have been made, but taking into account the circumstances it's understandable why that didn't happen. It should have, but things don't always happen the way they should have.
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:05 PM   #20
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Default Re: Jacks Dempsey ranking - arguments

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Originally Posted by Russell View Post
Dempsey's ranking has suffered over time almost as much as Jeffries.

I remember watching a Dempsey biography where there was a table of boxing experts and or retired fighters, including Archie Moore.

When asked who was greater between Dempsey and Tunney, they ALL, without a seconds hesitation, chose Dempsey.

And these weren't Bert Sugar "experts". Aka idiots.
Where did you see this?
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:07 PM   #21
jaffay
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Default Re: Jacks Dempsey ranking - arguments

Harry Wills said himself that it wasn't Jack's fault that fight didn't happen. Wills was a good, humble man and excellent boxer. What a shame he couldn't fight the best.
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:14 PM   #22
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Default Re: Jacks Dempsey ranking - arguments

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Harry Wills said himself that it wasn't Jack's fault that fight didn't happen. Wills was a good, humble man and excellent boxer. What a shame he couldn't fight the best.
It wasn't necessarily his fault, but he didn't do everything he possibly could have to make the fight happen, either. At any rate, I don't hold it against him too much. What I do hold against him are his goddamn multi-year lay-offs. Give a hobo a taste of the good life and they'll never want to go back to getting punched in the face for money. I've seen it a thousand times. His career is quite frustrated to think about.
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:16 PM   #23
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Default Re: Jacks Dempsey ranking - arguments

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Where did you see this?
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Dempsey biography
...
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:18 PM   #24
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...
Which one? What was it called? Where can it be found?
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:25 PM   #25
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Default Re: Jacks Dempsey ranking - arguments

Downloaded it from a boxing site called the WBVA a long time ago.

I believe it was a short piece where they sat down and actually timed the long count, discussed it, so on and so forth.
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Old 02-26-2009, 06:45 PM   #26
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Default Re: Jacks Dempsey ranking - arguments

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Jack was the template for inactivity among heavyweight champs. Vitali is an amateur where "hiatus" is concerned.
Jack was busy with his day job, deflowering virgins in whore houses ,for white slavers. Don't you do your research?
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Old 02-26-2009, 09:50 PM   #27
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Default Re: Jacks Dempsey ranking - arguments

Back in 1950, the AP asked sports experts in the United States to select the Greatest Athletes in each sport. Here's how they rated the Fighters.

Greatest Fighter - 1st Place Votes:
1. Jack Dempsey (Heavyweight) 251
2. Joe Louis (Heavyweight) 104
3. Henry Armstrong (126-147 Lbs.) 16
4. Gene Tunney (Heavyweight) 6
5. Benny Leonard (Lightweight) 5
6. Jack Johnson (Heavyweight) 4
7. Jim Jeffries (Heavyweight) 2

Greatest Male Athlete
1. Jim Thorpe
2. Babe Ruth
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Ty Cobb
5. Bob Jones
6. Joe Louis
7. Red Grange
8. Jesse Owens
9. Lou Gehrig
10. Bronko Nagurski
11. Jackie Robinson
12. Bob Mathias
13. Walter Johnson
14. Glenn Davis
15. Bill Tilden
16. Glenn Cunningham
17. Glenn Morris
18. Cornelius Warmerdam

All the rating that came out before 1960, had Dempsey as the #1 Heavyweight of all-times. After that they had Louis, now most have Ali.

I remember my friend Bert Sugar had Dempsey as #1 for a long time, now he has Louis, then Ali and Dempsey in 3rd. I asked him why he changed his rating, and he said that he listened to what others had to say, such as old time trainers and other boxing historians & experts.
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:30 PM   #28
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Default Re: Jacks Dempsey ranking - arguments

Dempsey was and is the shizzle, if you doubt him, you're knowledge is lacking and you're basing him on tired formula.

As a talent, a fighting man and a master of uber performances there are few competitors.

Despite a reserved reign, through no fault of his own, Dempsey lit the division on fire and more than merits for a spot in the top 10. Top 5 for me.
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:39 PM   #29
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Default Re: Jacks Dempsey ranking - arguments

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Jack was busy with his day job, deflowering virgins in whore houses ,for white slavers. Don't you do your research?
You know what you're talking about for once. I'm impressed.

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Old 02-27-2009, 12:15 AM   #30
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Default Re: Jacks Dempsey ranking - arguments

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Originally Posted by JimmyShimmy View Post
Dempsey was and is the shizzle, if you doubt him, you're knowledge is lacking and you're basing him on tired formula.

As a talent, a fighting man and a master of uber performances there are few competitors.

Despite a reserved reign, through no fault of his own, Dempsey lit the division on fire and more than merits for a spot in the top 10. Top 5 for me.
I'm sorry, Dempsey is probably my favorite fighter of all time, but I don't think you can just give him a free pass on his inactivity. Maybe for not fighting Wills, but you can't say that Dempsey couldn't have been fighting more. He took a total of 5 whole years off during his title reign. It's true that Rickard and Kearns didn't want him to fight too often, but taking off 5 years, from a reign that lasted seven, that's a bit extreme.
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