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Old 08-20-2007, 07:25 AM   #1
Luigi1985
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Default Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

Name a list with fighters who you think are here on ESB overrated and underrated and explain why, here are some personal examples from me:


Overrated:

Sonny Liston, surely an ATG, but when I read that many here have him in theit Top 3 ATG HWīs... he looked great when he was a contender, but to look great against old, washed up ex-contenders like Valdes, or fighters with padded records like C. Williams itīs a difference than against the elite fighters...

Muhammad Ali, definitely one of the greatest ever, thatīs out of question, but here on ESB the legendary sentence " The pre-exile Ali was much faster, much better in every area, etc.", head-to-head very overrated IMO, for every KD or defeat there exists another excuse...

Larry Holmes, also an ATG, no doubt, but his title reign was very poor, he had so many problems with fighters like a green Witherspoon, old Norton, Williams, etc...



Underrated:


Rocky Marciano, "he beat only washed up LHWīs", total bullshit, everyone who has footage of a prime Moore or Charles knows that the versions who fought Marciano were almost peak, many say he weighed only 183 lbs and wouldnīt have a chance against a decent SHW, etc...


James J. Jeffries, he dominated his era and defeated very good opposition like Sharkey, Fitzsimmons, Corbett, etc., if he wouldnīt have been so stupid and arrogant and would have fought Johnson, he would get the respect now he deserves...

Joe Frazier, he defeated everyone in spectacular fashion, incl. prime Ali, the Foreman- defeats were his problem, now I read often things like "Frazier was shaky, look what Foreman did to him, every big puncher in history would do that" and shit like that...
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Old 08-20-2007, 07:30 AM   #2
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

Overated: Marciano. Sorry Luigi, I just can't see it. I really think the guy would get his head handed to him by a lot of ATG fighters. A good fighter but nothing like as good as guys make out.

Underated: James J Braddock. He's always being talked about like one of the weaker champs. But that winning streak he went on just before his retirement spoke of a different fighter than the one with all those loses. He's a fine example of what can be turned up if you dig under the surface a wee bit.

I also think Sugar Ray Leonard is rather underated. Although maybe "hated" is a better word.
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Old 08-20-2007, 07:35 AM   #3
Luigi1985
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
Overated: Marciano. Sorry Luigi, I just can't see it. I really think the guy would get his head handed to him by a lot of ATG fighters. A good fighter but nothing like as good as guys make out.

Underated: James J Braddock. He's always being talked about like one of the weaker champs. But that winning streak he went on just before his retirement spoke of a different fighter than the one with all those loses. He's a fine example of what can be turned up if you dig under the surface a wee bit.

I also think Sugar Ray Leonard is rather underated. Although maybe "hated" is a better word.


You don´t need to excuse you, McGrain, everyone has an own opinion, which I respect, IMO it seems so that Marciano is getting underrated, some years ago it was exactly the other way, some friends said for example that he was the best because "he never lost and was 49-0-0", than I was also a bit angry and responded that fighters like Nielsen were also 49-0-0, that´s not important, etc., but like I wrote, for me, Rocky is now really getting underrated, when I read always comments like that Tye Fields would easily destroy Rocky in one single round, or that Valuev would KO him because he´s so big, etc...
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Old 08-20-2007, 07:41 AM   #4
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

I hear you Luigi, comments about Valuev beating Marciano are best left ignored, to disappear into the cyber-void forever...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi1985


You donīt need to excuse you, McGrain, everyone has an own opinion, which I respect, IMO it seems so that Marciano is getting underrated, some years ago it was exactly the other way, some friends said for example that he was the best because "he never lost and was 49-0-0", than I was also a bit angry and responded that fighters like Nielsen were also 49-0-0, thatīs not important, etc., but like I wrote, for me, Rocky is now really getting underrated, when I read always comments like that Tye Fields would easily destroy Rocky in one single round, or that Valuev would KO him because heīs so big, etc...
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Old 08-20-2007, 07:44 AM   #5
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickHudson
I hear you Luigi, comments about Valuev beating Marciano are best left ignored, to disappear into the cyber-void forever...

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Old 08-20-2007, 07:53 AM   #6
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
Overated: Marciano. Sorry Luigi, I just can't see it. I really think the guy would get his head handed to him by a lot of ATG fighters. A good fighter but nothing like as good as guys make out.

Underated: James J Braddock. He's always being talked about like one of the weaker champs. But that winning streak he went on just before his retirement spoke of a different fighter than the one with all those loses. He's a fine example of what can be turned up if you dig under the surface a wee bit.

I also think Sugar Ray Leonard is rather underated. Although maybe "hated" is a better word.

A largely superb post.

I actually place Marciano reasonably high in my Top 10 HW list but that's taking into consideration all factors- especially the 49-0, not all wins were against bums either. He would, however rank a great deal lower from a head-to-head viewpoint, it must be said.

Braddock does get some undeserved flack here, ditto SRL, though as you say (especially concerning the later) it's mostly down to people "personality hating" ...
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Old 08-20-2007, 08:06 AM   #7
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

Another candidate would be Pernell Whitaker, every close fight was a "robbery" and every defeat there exists excusses, whether about his "bad" performances I read never something...
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Old 08-20-2007, 08:14 AM   #8
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi1985
Another candidate would be Pernell Whitaker, every close fight was a "robbery" and every defeat there exists excusses, whether about his "bad" performances I read never something...
Well there's no doubt he beat Ramirez and Chavez. The man went 13 years without being beaten in reality, it'd be hard to overrate him. DLH was a close fight, but jeez Whitaker was on the slide by then and if anything should be lauded for his effort regardless. Totally disagree on this one.
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Old 08-20-2007, 08:15 AM   #9
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

here is my list of Overated and Underated fighters on this board.

Overated
Winky Wright
Felix Trinidad
Jack Johnson
Mike McCallum
Primo Carnera
But may i add that i do not like saying any fighter is Overated because it takes balls to be a Pro Boxer. But i hate hearing about people drum these fighters above up.

Underated.
Floyd Patterson
Mike Tyson (always gets crap on here but all i will say if it wasnt for Iron Mike 75% of boxing fans today wouldnt be around it was thanks to Mike that there are so many fans today)
George Foreman
Lennox Lewis
Kostya Tszyu (just wish he wuld get more respect on this board)
Carlos Monzon
Ricardo Lopez
Joe Calzaghe
Marvin Hagler
Fighting Harada
Sonny Liston
Larry Holmes
and i could go on and on but they will do for a start.
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Old 08-20-2007, 08:18 AM   #10
Luigi1985
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
Well there's no doubt he beat Ramirez and Chavez. The man went 13 years without being beaten in reality, it'd be hard to overrate him. DLH was a close fight, but jeez Whitaker was on the slide by then and if anything should be lauded for his effort regardless. Totally disagree on this one.

Even the best fighter in history can be overrated. In fantasy matchups, where also Whitaker is, I read from so many nut hugging-fans always the same: "Whitaker would be too tricky and too slick, wide UD for him", even against fighters who were much better at 147 lbs. (legacy-wise), thatīs what I mean...
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Old 08-20-2007, 08:19 AM   #11
Luigi1985
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoppaZoo
here is my list of Overated and Underated fighters on this board.

Overated
Winky Wright
Felix Trinidad
Jack Johnson
Mike McCallum
Primo Carnera
But may i add that i do not like saying any fighter is Overated because it takes balls to be a Pro Boxer. But i hate hearing about people drum these fighters above up.

Underated.
Floyd Patterson
Mike Tyson (always gets crap on here but all i will say if it wasnt for Iron Mike 75% of boxing fans today wouldnt be around it was thanks to Mike that there are so many fans today)
George Foreman
Lennox Lewis
Kostya Tszyu (just wish he wuld get more respect on this board)
Carlos Monzon
Ricardo Lopez
Joe Calzaghe
Marvin Hagler
Fighting Harada
Sonny Liston
Larry Holmes
and i could go on and on but they will do for a start.

Sorry, but thatīs a horrible list. Tyson, Foreman, Calzaghe underrated? And Carnera overrated? Who overrate him? Most fans think he was a bum who was controlled by the mob...
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Old 08-20-2007, 08:29 AM   #12
JohnThomas1
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi1985
Even the best fighter in history can be overrated. In fantasy matchups, where also Whitaker is, I read from so many nut hugging-fans always the same: "Whitaker would be too tricky and too slick, wide UD for him", even against fighters who were much better at 147 lbs. (legacy-wise), thatīs what I mean...
Well that's a far cry from what you originally posted, but much easier to follow.
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Old 08-20-2007, 08:30 AM   #13
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

The fighter who is the most underrated and at the same time most overrated is Lennox Lewis. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground with peoples opinions on him. People either dismiss him as having a weak chin, or then theres the remainder, who claim he was the best thing since sliced bread and rate him as a top 5 heavy.
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Old 08-20-2007, 08:32 AM   #14
Luigi1985
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
Well that's a far cry from what you originally posted, but much easier to follow.

With the "excusses" I simply meant that some fanboys change it the way they like/ need it, every defeat was a robbery and every close fight he won was a master performance...

IMO Whitaker was a real master boxer, legacy-wise very good and head-to-head also very good, but for me very overrated on ESB...
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Old 08-20-2007, 08:32 AM   #15
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi1985
Sorry, but thatīs a horrible list. Tyson, Foreman, Calzaghe underrated? And Carnera overrated? Who overrate him? Most fans think he was a bum who was controlled by the mob...
and what makes you such a f-ing expert. like i said i hate overating fighters but the fact remains all those i listed are Underated.

Tyson is spoken on this board as a fighter that was only good for 4 years. but everyone forgets that if it wasnt for Tyson boxing would not have as many fans as they got from him and him alone in the 80's.

Foreman for me has always been Underated i mean at 50 he gave a Prime Holyfield the fight of his life.

Calzaghe has been a Champ for ten solid years and still even after he busts up Lacy still doesnt get respect off the Yankees on this sight.

Horrble list my ass yours was a horrible list.
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