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Old 08-20-2007, 09:19 AM   #31
BoppaZoo
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
Legacy-wise doesn't do much for head to head though. I would take most of the top WW's to beat him, but he would beat some.
Spot On styles make fights.

I think Whitaker is were he should be. probably 9 P4P all time and probably the best fighter between 1988 until 1996. i would never overate or underate Sweet Pea.

Top fighter with a drug problem.

He has a great list of names.
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Old 08-20-2007, 09:26 AM   #32
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

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Originally Posted by BoppaZoo
yeah can i just say by you saying that why dont you ask PBF the last time he left his country.
That makes no sense at all. Why the heck should he leave the States? To prove to the people in Wales he's a good fighter?
As I said, the US is the mecca of boxing.
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Old 08-20-2007, 09:35 AM   #33
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

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Originally Posted by fists of fury
That makes no sense at all. Why the heck should he leave the States? To prove to the people in Wales he's a good fighter?
As I said, the US is the mecca of boxing.
Its the Mecca according to Americans.

Its funny you know Carlos Monzon made a career from fighting not in the USA. but we dont here about him being overated.

Yet Calzaghe has left his country twice once going to Germany and the other time to Denmark.

Whats wrong with PBF fighting Hatton in say UK. where they would make more money and probably fill a 80,000 seater Wembley stadium.

Hell you dont need to fight in the USA to make the most money that is a myth.

Tszyu vs Lieja sold 34,000 tickets at Melbournes Telstra Dome.
Tszyu vs Mitchell sold 9,000 tickets at Phoenix sad.

Imagine How many tickets Hatton Mayweather would sell in th UK. yet in the states They just fill a 20,000.

Its a Myth Calzaghe vs Kessler will sell more tickets than Hopkins vs Wright did.

Just staing the truth its a myth that the USA believe if you dont fight in the USA you are no body and cant make money yet Calzaghe has looked pretty happy making all that money so far.

Its all a Myth.
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Old 08-20-2007, 09:42 AM   #34
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

Overrated: Whitaker while I agree he is an all time great I believe some are blinded by favoritism towards him. In head to head sense I remember people picking him over Napoles and they refuse to understand other arguments for Armstrong or Duran beating him rather just claim it would never happen.

Roy Jones while an extremely talented fighter people believe the guy could beat anyone what did he do at 160lbs for people to believe he could beat Monzon. And he had one heavyweight fight yet people think he could beat Dempsey and Marciano.

Underrated: Holman Williams I have said this before that he doesn’t get enough credit for example as seen in a recent thread about him and only like three people replied. Not only is he underrated but the guy is just plain ignored which is surprising since Burley gets a lot of attention.

Barbados Demon Joe Walcott people where finally understanding what a great fighter he was and then I read that Zab Judah would tko him at welterweight. What has Zab shown to make people believe he could finish Walcott, beat Spinks? If the guy said Zab will use his speed and box to a decision I still don't see it but it could happen but finish a guy who in his prime took shots from Langford and stayed up.
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Old 08-20-2007, 10:02 AM   #35
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

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Originally Posted by Minotauro
Overrated: Whitaker while I agree he is an all time great I believe some are blinded by favoritism towards him. In head to head sense I remember people picking him over Napoles and they refuse to understand other arguments for Armstrong or Duran beating him rather just claim it would never happen.

Roy Jones while an extremely talented fighter people believe the guy could beat anyone what did he do at 160lbs for people to believe he could beat Monzon. And he had one heavyweight fight yet people think he could beat Dempsey and Marciano.

Underrated: Holman Williams I have said this before that he doesn’t get enough credit for example as seen in a recent thread about him and only like three people replied. Not only is he underrated but the guy is just plain ignored which is surprising since Burley gets a lot of attention.

Barbados Demon Joe Walcott people where finally understanding what a great fighter he was and then I read that Zab Judah would tko him at welterweight. What has Zab shown to make people believe he could finish Walcott, beat Spinks? If the guy said Zab will use his speed and box to a decision I still don't see it but it could happen but finish a guy who in his prime took shots from Langford and stayed up.
I'd take Whitaker over anyone at lightweight. However, welterweight is an entirely different story altogether. Duran, Armstrong, Hearns, Leonard, Robinson, and Napoles would all probably have beaten him. Curry and Mosley have a 50/50 chance of beating him.

Whitaker's reflexes deteriorated noticeably when he moved into the welterweight division. The added weight made his style less effective, although he could still hand out boxing lessons from time to time. He could no longer dominate his opponents enough to warrant wide shut out decisions. He was punching it out more than usual, and getting hit a bit more often. Their were some exceptions, Chavez, Vasquez, and De La Hoya.
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Old 08-20-2007, 10:19 AM   #36
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

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Originally Posted by tobkhan
Well, imo Tyson and RJJ are massivly overrated because of their exciting style. Still great but some people just are too much of a fan.

For me it seems Monzon gets a it underrated nowadays. A year ago he was nearly universally accepted as the number one mw but right now his stock seems to fall with many.
Agreed
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Old 08-20-2007, 10:26 AM   #37
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

Overrated on internet sites in general...

Tyson
Marciano
Roy Jones
Ikeabuchi
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Old 08-20-2007, 11:04 AM   #38
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

Well, Lewis and Tyson definately have the biggest diversities in opinions, and are the most controversial. But in general, and in all of boxing, overrated Tyson, Jones Jr, Muhammad Ali, Sugar Ray Robinson, and George Foreman are overrated. Underrated, Rocky Marciano is slowly becoming underrated, same with Willie Pep, IMO Larry Holmes puts up with crap that he wouldn't get if he didn't say some of the things he said.
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Old 08-20-2007, 11:30 AM   #39
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

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Originally Posted by Luigi1985
Name a list with fighters who you think are here on ESB overrated and underrated and explain why, here are some personal examples from me:


Overrated:

Sonny Liston, surely an ATG, but when I read that many here have him in theit Top 3 ATG HW´s... he looked great when he was a contender, but to look great against old, washed up ex-contenders like Valdes, or fighters with padded records like C. Williams it´s a difference than against the elite fighters...

Muhammad Ali, definitely one of the greatest ever, that´s out of question, but here on ESB the legendary sentence " The pre-exile Ali was much faster, much better in every area, etc.", head-to-head very overrated IMO, for every KD or defeat there exists another excuse...

Larry Holmes, also an ATG, no doubt, but his title reign was very poor, he had so many problems with fighters like a green Witherspoon, old Norton, Williams, etc...



Underrated:


Rocky Marciano, "he beat only washed up LHW´s", total bullshit, everyone who has footage of a prime Moore or Charles knows that the versions who fought Marciano were almost peak, many say he weighed only 183 lbs and wouldn´t have a chance against a decent SHW, etc...


James J. Jeffries, he dominated his era and defeated very good opposition like Sharkey, Fitzsimmons, Corbett, etc., if he wouldn´t have been so stupid and arrogant and would have fought Johnson, he would get the respect now he deserves...

Joe Frazier, he defeated everyone in spectacular fashion, incl. prime Ali, the Foreman- defeats were his problem, now I read often things like "Frazier was shaky, look what Foreman did to him, every big puncher in history would do that" and shit like that...
Overated
Hopkins.
Underated
SR Leonard.Giardello,J Johnson.
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Old 08-20-2007, 12:22 PM   #40
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

Overated on this site:

Harry Greb - Bigtime - has anyone seen more than 2-3 of his fights
Ali - Great fighter but here you can't say a bad word about him
Larry Holmes - Fought in a terrible era and was dropped like a bitch too many times
Floyd Patterson - Would have been a great lightheavy, no chin at all!
Sonny Liston - Good fighter top 15-20 heavy no better than that based on his actual career, not the mythical one that has grown.
Sam Langford - might have been great but how can we tell, no footage.
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Old 08-20-2007, 12:32 PM   #41
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

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Originally Posted by True Writer
Overated on this site:

Harry Greb - Bigtime - has anyone seen more than 2-3 of his fights
Ali - Great fighter but here you can't say a bad word about him
Larry Holmes - Fought in a terrible era and was dropped like a bitch too many times
Floyd Patterson - Would have been a great lightheavy, no chin at all!
Sonny Liston - Good fighter top 15-20 heavy no better than that based on his actual career, not the mythical one that has grown.
Sam Langford - might have been great but how can we tell, no footage.
To my knowledge, Holmes was dropped twice in his prime, and three times against Tyson in the one night. Hardly "too many times".
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Old 08-20-2007, 12:32 PM   #42
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

The most interesting case is Calzaghe(on this site speciffically) . Pre Lacy and even up to about half a year ago he was utterly despised and underated, but now since the Kessler fight was announced there seems to be an upswell of hysteria in his favour. I mean real top 20 p4p stuff!
If he beats Kessler, look for his fans start to clamour for atg p4p top 10 staus! If he looses he's an overated euro-bum.

RJJ is overated imo, not that he wasn't excellent, its just that after Hopkins and Toney he settled down to decent but unspectacular opposition. His lack of ambition allways rankled with me. If you can beat greats like those two early in your career, why not carry on seeking the best opposition for your legacy possible?

Barry Mcguigan will become underated. He's undeserving of a HOF placement so people could well hold that against him and down value his achievements as a result.

Naseem Hamed is underated because of his personality (he's an asshole!). He's got a superb list of scalps but people only seem to want to remember his loss to MAB who was the one atg he fought.(Surely one of the most popular wins of all time,even many Brits were cheering that result!)
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Old 08-20-2007, 12:34 PM   #43
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

Ali was a great fighter - but not god.
Holmes - I'm not even going to comment on him again he is simply overated.
Sam Langford - might have been great but we just don't know. Looking at his resume does not prove that much as we can't actually see his fights. I am not saying he's not a great but I cant see how some people can place him above so many other great fighters having never seen him fight.
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Old 08-20-2007, 02:21 PM   #44
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

overrated: pac, duran, marciano

underrated: lewis
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Old 08-20-2007, 05:28 PM   #45
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Default Re: Overrated/ underrated fighters here on ESB

Marciano gets overrated some years, than a major underated draft comes in. So he flip flops. In the 90's he was pretty over rated. But come 2000 and up. We see people claiming he was a no one, and should not be in the top 30 all time heavyweights. One said before the crash, said top 100, and made a top list of heavyweights that were better than Marciano. Yes both Spinks brothers, Bruce Seldon, and others were rank over Marciano in that list.
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