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Old 08-21-2007, 09:28 AM   #31
Sweet Science
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Default Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Naseem Hamed

Quote:
Originally Posted by WindUp
Naseem Hamed was nothing but a manufactured hype-job who barely knew how to box, survived on nothing but power, and whose best win consisted of having to get off the floor to stop Kevin Kelley. And his management only selected Kelley because he'd been looking like damaged goods for the couple of years since his loss to Gonzalez.

He boxed in this ridiculous "unorthodox" style that was only "confusing" to domestic-level UK bums. Against Barerra he was exposed as just plain not being able to box. I don't mean he wasn't able to pile up points with flashy moves or whatever, I mean he was just plain deficient in basic boxing skills that he should have picked up as an amateur. If Barerra hadn't been overly respectful of Hamed's power, he'd have stepped on the gas and knocked the Prince out.

Pacquiao isn't the God of Boxing some of his rabid supporters make him out to be, but he's a seasoned, proven fighter with stoppage victories over Barerra and Morales that are better than any wins on Hamed's record.

He will come to trade, and it'll be absolutely unlike anything the Prince has ever faced before. If a shopworn Kevin Kelley can repeatedly deck Hamed and force him to the brink of disaster, Pacquiao will ****ing destroy him. It's convenient how he was "over the hill" just as he finally started to fight anyone halfway good.

Pac KO4 Hamed. One-sided fight.
"Naseem Hamed was nothing but a manufactured hype-job"

What?! We're not talking about the spice girls here.


Yet another person who hasn't seen Hamed fight pre Kevin Kelley.

If you only saw Mike Tyson fight post prison you'd
think he was all hype too.
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Old 08-21-2007, 09:44 AM   #32
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Default Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Naseem Hamed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Science
Most people don't like Hamed, and are unfairly biased against him.

People normally dismiss him for 1 or both of the following reasons:

1. He was an arrogant outspoken dickhead

or

2. They haven't seen his fights before Kevin Kelley, by which time he was an accident waiting to happen (no pun intended).
And by the same token, most who overrate him are British.

I don't know who wins, but it would have been a hell of a fight.
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Old 08-21-2007, 09:48 AM   #33
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Default Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Naseem Hamed

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Originally Posted by fists of fury
And by the same token, most who overrate him are British.

I don't know who wins, but it would have been a hell of a fight.
Yes I'm British, but that does not cloud my judgment. I think Lennox Lewis is overrated and Joe Calzaghe is an overrated slapper who only beat a 1 dimentional fighter in Lacy.
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Old 08-21-2007, 09:51 AM   #34
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Default Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Naseem Hamed

Fair enough.

Few though, however objective they try to be, rarely truly are. (Me included.)

Last edited by Jack; 05-11-2006 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 08-21-2007, 09:53 AM   #35
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Default Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Naseem Hamed

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Originally Posted by Sweet Science
You can't trade with the Naseem from 1996.
Kevin Kelley fought a washed up Hamed.
Hamed wasn't washed up. Maybe he was slightly past hsi physical prime, but the guy had such an easy career against nobodies before 1996, he couldn't possibly be past it. Who, apart from Medina, actually gave him a good, close fight?

He wasn't washed up at all.
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Old 08-21-2007, 09:58 AM   #36
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Default Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Naseem Hamed

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Originally Posted by Jack
Hamed wasn't washed up. Maybe he was slightly past hsi physical prime, but the guy had such an easy career against nobodies before 1996, he couldn't possibly be past it. Who, apart from Medina, actually gave him a good, close fight?

He wasn't washed up at all.

He was washed up, because he didn't train. At that point his ego was the size of Mount Kilimanjaro and he thought he didn't need to train and just relied on power. His skills were eroded as a result and his reflexes paled in comparison to what they once were.

So when I say he was washed up, it's not in the traditional sense i.e. passed it, due to old age or battle worn. He was washed up because he simply didn't train and once he stopped training properly he was never the same again.
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Old 08-21-2007, 10:35 AM   #37
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Default Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Naseem Hamed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Science
The biggest myth about Hamed was that he was exposed when he faced world class opposition. He wasn't exposed by Barrera, he was already finished way before he stepped in the ring against Barrera. It wasn't his level of opponents, Naseem was his own worst enemy. Not training, was what eroded his skills.

Watch his fights against Said Lawal, Steve Robinson or even Manuel Madina, then tell me if that is the same man who fought Barrara or Kevin Kelley. His reflexes were dull, he'd lost sharpness due to lack of training. This was not due to him being exposed against a greater of fighter. The clown you saw in the ring could'nt get away with the shit he did because he wasn't the same fighter, washed up at a scandelously young age. He wasn't made to look bad by the world class opposition, he was just plain out of condition and wasn't any good by the time you saw him.

Against Pacquiao, Hamed would simply beat him to the punch with his lightning reflexes and knock him out cold, early. Everyone will laugh and disagree with me here, but Hamed would have knocked the **** out of Barrera (just like Jones Jr), Morales and Pacquiao - had he fought them when he was actually any good. He would have been a legend, but instead he is just a has been and he has himself to blame for that.
during 1996, hamed reigns at featherweight but at the same time luisito espinosa reigns at the same division. espinosa was pushing for a fight with hamed but i guess hamed doesn't want anything to do with espinosa and chose to fight medina whom espinosa defeated before. that was my first impression of hamed.

now you are saying, that a 1996 Hamed would have knocked pac, barrera and morales when during that time, he was ducking an old champion by the name of espinosa.
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Old 08-21-2007, 10:46 AM   #38
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Default Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Naseem Hamed

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Originally Posted by puga_ni_nana
during 1996, hamed reigns at featherweight but at the same time luisito espinosa reigns at the same division. espinosa was pushing for a fight with hamed but i guess hamed doesn't want anything to do with espinosa and chose to fight medina whom espinosa defeated before. that was my first impression of hamed.

now you are saying, that a 1996 Hamed would have knocked pac, barrera and morales when during that time, he was ducking an old champion by the name of espinosa.
Naseem Hamed ducked Luisito Espinosa!?

Yes, of course and I'm sure you were privy to all negotiations with Hamed and Espinosa at the time. As you were probably a special advisor to Espinosa in 1996 before he uncerimoniously fired you for his financial irregularities.
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Old 08-21-2007, 11:10 AM   #39
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Default Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Naseem Hamed

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Originally Posted by Sweet Science
Naseem Hamed ducked Luisito Espinosa!?

Yes, of course and I'm sure you were privy to all negotiations with Hamed and Espinosa at the time. As you were probably a special advisor to Espinosa in 1996 before he uncerimoniously fired you for his financial irregularities.
though it is hard for you to believe, that is the case. espinosa could be after the purse in fighting hamed but there is no denying that hamed did not entertain the notion of fighting espinosa during their long reign as champions. instead he went for medina.

as for the 1996 hamed who will beat pac to the punch and knock barrera and morales, he could be in the same league as far as talent with the likes of pac, barrera and morales but he lacks the discipline and the especially the "heart" to beat those three great fighters.
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Old 08-21-2007, 11:15 AM   #40
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Default Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Naseem Hamed

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Originally Posted by puga_ni_nana
though it is hard for you to believe, that is the case. espinosa could be after the purse in fighting hamed but there is no denying that hamed did not entertain the notion of fighting espinosa during their long reign as champions. instead he went for medina.
sources, evidence and proof or stfu! too many posts on this forum with 'x ducked z!!' with their only proof being the two fighters didn't meet in the ring.
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Old 08-21-2007, 11:28 AM   #41
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Default Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Naseem Hamed

Quote:
Originally Posted by puga_ni_nana
though it is hard for you to believe, that is the case. espinosa could be after the purse in fighting hamed but there is no denying that hamed did not entertain the notion of fighting espinosa during their long reign as champions. instead he went for medina.

as for the 1996 hamed who will beat pac to the punch and knock barrera and morales, he could be in the same league as far as talent with the likes of pac, barrera and morales but he lacks the discipline and the especially the "heart" to beat those three great fighters.
He lacked discipline when he didn't train, when he did train he was very disciplined and didn't just rely on his power. Around the time he fought Kevin Kelly his training had become a joke I suspect this is around the time you probably first saw him.

I don't see how he lacked heart in the ring, even later when he had become a joke he showed a great deal of heart getting up from the canvass and fighting on to win. Like I said earlier, he was never the same man or fighter after he stopped training. His heart and passion wasn't fully in the fight game anymore. His last fight with Calvo is evidence of this. That's why he never came back.

We don't know why the Espinosa fight never materialised but it's laughable that you think Hamed would duck Espinosa. He always felt he could knock anyone out and at one time in 1996 he was dead right.
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Old 08-22-2007, 10:06 AM   #42
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Default Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Naseem Hamed

[quote=WindUp]Hamed whipped a few solid but unspectacular guys like Johnson and Bungu, had to fight for his life to get past a shopworn Kelley, and was defeated with laughable ease by the first truly elite fighter he faced. If he were a black guy from Chicago you wouldn't even remember his name right now.[/quote]

What the hell do you mean by that?

What has race got to do with anything?


You're really beginning to piss me off.
You sound like you have some serious issues you need to work out.

You might judge fighters by the colour of their skin and which part of the wolrd they happen to be born in but I certainly don't, it doesn't even come into the equation. Don't judge me by your pathetic standards by assuming I have a prejudiced attitude, as you clearly do.
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Old 08-22-2007, 10:15 AM   #43
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Default Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Naseem Hamed

Quote:
Originally Posted by WindUp
Hamed whipped a few solid but unspectacular guys like Johnson and Bungu, had to fight for his life to get past a shopworn Kelley, and was defeated with laughable ease by the first truly elite fighter he faced. If he were a black guy from Chicago you wouldn't even remember his name right now.
What the hell do you mean by that?

What has race got to do with anything?


You're really beginning to piss me off.
You sound like you have some serious issues you need to work out.

You might judge fighters by the colour of their skin and which part of the world they happen to be born in but I certainly don't, it doesn't even come into the equation. Don't judge me by your pathetic standards by assuming I have a prejudiced attitude, as you clearly do.

Last edited by Sweet Science; 08-22-2007 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 08-22-2007, 09:04 PM   #44
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Default Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Naseem Hamed

When an right handed fighter faces a left handed fighter, the fighters with their lead foot on the outside has a better chance of landing power punches. The fighters with their lead foot on the inside has their jab lining up better.

None of this comes into play in this bout. There're both southpaws.

If Hamed were being pressed by an orthodox fighter, his staight left would come into play more. It won't line up against Pacquiao the same way it does against a right handed fighter with a better defense.

Pacquiao's speed and work rate would expose the flaws in Hamed's style that some weaker less active fighters failed to do. He wouldn't have the same opportunities to wind up and spring on Pacquiao. Pac would not respect his distance the way other fighters do.

I see Pacquiao by later round stoppage, and I am not one that thought Naseem was all that overrated. I picked Barrera to beat him, but I thought it would have been more similar to the way I think Pacquiao would than the way he did it. I also didn't take into account his height and reach advantage over Hamed.
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Old 08-23-2007, 01:16 AM   #45
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Default Re: Manny Pacquiao vs. Naseem Hamed

Quote:
Originally Posted by rekcutnevets
When an right handed fighter faces a left handed fighter, the fighters with their lead foot on the outside has a better chance of landing power punches. The fighters with their lead foot on the inside has their jab lining up better.

None of this comes into play in this bout. There're both southpaws.

If Hamed were being pressed by an orthodox fighter, his staight left would come into play more. It won't line up against Pacquiao the same way it does against a right handed fighter with a better defense.

Pacquiao's speed and work rate would expose the flaws in Hamed's style that some weaker less active fighters failed to do. He wouldn't have the same opportunities to wind up and spring on Pacquiao. Pac would not respect his distance the way other fighters do.

I see Pacquiao by later round stoppage, and I am not one that thought Naseem was all that overrated. I picked Barrera to beat him, but I thought it would have been more similar to the way I think Pacquiao would than the way he did it. I also didn't take into account his height and reach advantage over Hamed.
This fight is kind of difficult for me to say who is going to win. I think the one that takes control in the first 3/4 rounds migh have the best chance to ko the other one. I am saying KO because I think this fight would have ended like that, KO or TKO.

However, not all the time fights go that way, and therefore I would like to ask all of you a simple question... who do you think could win if the fight goes the distance?
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