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Old 09-18-2012, 04:13 AM   #16
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

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Originally Posted by TVLPC View Post
If somebody is in shape, then yes LSD training is good for active recovery and more intense methods can and should be used. As I said, "it's not the end all be all" but does have a purpose. There are some cardiac adaptations that happen from this method that does have a purpose different than other intense methods, while there are adaptations doing a 60-90 sec all out effort that are necessary for boxers and other combat athletes as well that LSD cannot do.

Yes, the act of punching is anaerobic and yes, it is possible to train both at the same time. I guess what I should have said is that I would train most of my boxers under anaerobic threshold for the most part and use tabata intervals, cardiac power intervals, and so forth sparingly due to the nature of boxing and the intensity of these methods. I have always felt that if you are sparring, doing bag work with a purpose and intensity, a lot of your conditioning can take care of itself. I would not tell somebody to hit a bag with 30% intensity, keeping training aerobic. That would be stupid unless they were coming off an injury.

The reason I state that the aerobic energy system is something I would work most exclusively on is because it is the energy system that works "behind the scenes" so to speak to help to eliminate the anaerobic byproducts and consistently "replenish" that energy system. The better the aerobic system, the better the anaerobic system can work to punch/kick/takedown, whatever more times. Yes, the methods you described are excellent, as are threshold training, fartlek, etc. which all have there place. The fittest I ever got was doing a 2 month training block with threshold training on Jacob's Ladder 2 x week, 1 day traditional intervals along with 2 days of LSD work along with 3 days of sparring 5-8 rounds but had to build a good aerobic base to do so, which I did using less intense methods. Hitting a bag/sparring is an interval of anaerobic(throwing combinations, jabs, and so forth) combined with aerobic(stepping around, rest in between combinations, rest in between rounds, and so forth). This does not mean I don't believe in using methods training the anaerobic-lactic energy system, I would just use them more sparingly than others on the board use.

As for weights, yes I use them and feel it is great for resistance, and no, there is nothing wrong with weight circuits. That being said, I feel that weights provide typically only movement across a vertical plane and bands can allow for movement across a horizontal plane which is what most sports utilize to a larger degree. Yes, doing high depth jumps and heavy shock type intervals can be very taxing on the Central Nervous System and should be used sparingly and programmed intelligently but bounding, hops, plyos with low to moderate levels of intensity can be very helpful with a low risk of injury if done properly.

Hopefully this better explains my position. If I am wrong I will absolutely concede and have no problem learning something new. Although it is hard to tell a person's character over an internet forum, I am the last person who would ever prey on anyone or purposely tell people wrong for my own "fun." That would serve me no purpose whatsoever.

PK, My intention was not to be offensive, I just had some different thoughts than you, and many of the same, even if it didn't come across this way in the post.
You are Spot On, good Post. Only need 3 max workouts a week, recovery is the Key.
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Old 09-18-2012, 04:24 AM   #17
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

I think it is all about heart, character and .. God's blessing. This is the only way I can explain how old-timers went through 15 rounds and fought 50+ bouts per career
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Old 09-18-2012, 03:35 PM   #18
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

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I think it is all about heart, character and .. God's blessing. This is the only way I can explain how old-timers went through 15 rounds and fought 50+ bouts per career
I think it could be, that they were in good condition to Fight, dont think for one moment, that they were not.
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:12 PM   #19
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

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I think it could be, that they were in good condition to Fight, dont think for one moment, that they were not.
Yep, none of them had access to the science that we do currently, but their work pace, in the ring, of the heavyweights then, puts the heavyweights of today to shame!
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:21 PM   #20
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

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Originally Posted by TVLPC View Post
Yep, none of them had access to the science that we do currently, but their work pace, in the ring, of the heavyweights then, puts the heavyweights of today to shame!
What's your opinion on this of training twice per day.

I personally think it's ****ing retarded.
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:45 PM   #21
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

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Originally Posted by Primadonna Kool View Post
What's your opinion on this of training twice per day.

I personally think it's ****ing retarded.
PK, are you referring to how boxers trained today vs. say the 60s and 70s?
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Old 09-19-2012, 06:11 PM   #22
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

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PK, are you referring to how boxers trained today vs. say the 60s and 70s?
Just in general training twice per day..? You see allot of athlete's training twice a day in most sports these days "Maybe even more", i personally just think its retarded.

I will only EVER train once per day, i will never ever change this. Apparently if you train twice per day, it's basically forcing you're body to recover faster, but it takes up to 6 months to fully adapt so they say. Also the more you train the more you're body producers cortisol, regarding to boxing i think allot of boxers get carried away with the duration of their training sessions. Training as you know is a damaging process all it is essentially is a traumatic experience for you're body, the more you train the more stress hormone which is released. Which is basically going to have a caticbolic affect on you're body, and if you continently keep releasing high amounts of stress hormone you will become chronically fatigued....

I honestly think allot of boxers are chronically fatigued but..? People in the boxing world just past them off as being shot. I honestly don't think the majority of boxers training regimes combined with diets is in the long term a great life style for any athlete..........."This trend of training multiple times per days, is the reason why most athlete's die young, or look completely ****ed when they retire".

This is the big problem i have got with this training twice per day, or 3 times per day bullshit.

I just want to know what you think..?

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Old 09-19-2012, 08:36 PM   #23
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

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Originally Posted by Primadonna Kool View Post
Just in general training twice per day..? You see allot of athlete's training twice a day in most sports these days "Maybe even more", i personally just think its retarded.

I will only EVER train once per day, i will never ever change this. Apparently if you train twice per day, it's basically forcing you're body to recover faster, but it takes up to 6 months to fully adapt so they say. Also the more you train the more you're body producers cortisol, regarding to boxing i think allot of boxers get carried away with the duration of their training sessions. Training as you know is a damaging process all it is essentially is a traumatic experience for you're body, the more you train the more stress hormone which is released. Which is basically going to have a caticbolic affect on you're body, and if you continently keep releasing high amounts of stress hormone you will become chronically fatigued....

I honestly think allot of boxers are chronically fatigued but..? People in the boxing world just past them off as being shot. I honestly don't think the majority of boxers training regimes combined with diets is in the long term a great life style for any athlete..........."This trend of training multiple times per days, is the reason why most athlete's die young, or look completely ****ed when they retire".

This is the big problem i have got with this training twice per day, or 3 times per day bullshit.

I just want to know what you think..?

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A lot of Truth there
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:53 PM   #24
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

oh I love this thread
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:04 PM   #25
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

Mother****ers dropping some knowledge over here...I'm thoroughly enjoying this discussion, keep it up gents!
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Old 09-20-2012, 02:15 AM   #26
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

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Originally Posted by bballchump11 View Post
oh I love this thread
Love it but can't touch it. I'm just the guy who does the work, not the homework. At least not this deep.
Break it down a little simpler for us Neanderthals.
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Old 09-20-2012, 05:16 AM   #27
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

PK has got knowledge, surprised by how in depth he knows his stuff...

No offence PK but I thought you was a bit of a nutcase.
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:29 PM   #28
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

Interestingly PK, this has a connection with one of my main Peeves. Working Kids, when there Bodies havent matured enough for Hard Work. Its been going on for years, stopping proper development. I spend a bit of Time at academy's, top soccer clubs by the way. What I see makes me cringe. It did when I watched Boxing Clubs also.
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Old 09-20-2012, 02:55 PM   #29
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Primadonna Kool View Post
Just in general training twice per day..? You see allot of athlete's training twice a day in most sports these days "Maybe even more", i personally just think its retarded.

I will only EVER train once per day, i will never ever change this. Apparently if you train twice per day, it's basically forcing you're body to recover faster, but it takes up to 6 months to fully adapt so they say. Also the more you train the more you're body producers cortisol, regarding to boxing i think allot of boxers get carried away with the duration of their training sessions. Training as you know is a damaging process all it is essentially is a traumatic experience for you're body, the more you train the more stress hormone which is released. Which is basically going to have a caticbolic affect on you're body, and if you continently keep releasing high amounts of stress hormone you will become chronically fatigued....

I honestly think allot of boxers are chronically fatigued but..? People in the boxing world just past them off as being shot. I honestly don't think the majority of boxers training regimes combined with diets is in the long term a great life style for any athlete..........."This trend of training multiple times per days, is the reason why most athlete's die young, or look completely ****ed when they retire".

This is the big problem i have got with this training twice per day, or 3 times per day bullshit.

I just want to know what you think..?

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Great post, PK!

Like scrap said, 3 workouts a week is all you need/recovery is key.
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Old 09-20-2012, 03:28 PM   #30
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

Of interest to the Thread, Now you can work with a Heartbeat, of 145, while working Anaerobically, thats interesting . While creating 30% more Lactic than Running the same distance, without impact.
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