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Old 09-20-2012, 04:32 PM   #31
brown bomber
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

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Originally Posted by TVLPC View Post
If somebody is in shape, then yes LSD training is good for active recovery and more intense methods can and should be used. As I said, "it's not the end all be all" but does have a purpose. There are some cardiac adaptations that happen from this method that does have a purpose different than other intense methods, while there are adaptations doing a 60-90 sec all out effort that are necessary for boxers and other combat athletes as well that LSD cannot do.

Yes, the act of punching is anaerobic and yes, it is possible to train both at the same time. I guess what I should have said is that I would train most of my boxers under anaerobic threshold for the most part and use tabata intervals, cardiac power intervals, and so forth sparingly due to the nature of boxing and the intensity of these methods. I have always felt that if you are sparring, doing bag work with a purpose and intensity, a lot of your conditioning can take care of itself. I would not tell somebody to hit a bag with 30% intensity, keeping training aerobic. That would be stupid unless they were coming off an injury.

The reason I state that the aerobic energy system is something I would work most exclusively on is because it is the energy system that works "behind the scenes" so to speak to help to eliminate the anaerobic byproducts and consistently "replenish" that energy system. The better the aerobic system, the better the anaerobic system can work to punch/kick/takedown, whatever more times. Yes, the methods you described are excellent, as are threshold training, fartlek, etc. which all have there place. The fittest I ever got was doing a 2 month training block with threshold training on Jacob's Ladder 2 x week, 1 day traditional intervals along with 2 days of LSD work along with 3 days of sparring 5-8 rounds but had to build a good aerobic base to do so, which I did using less intense methods. Hitting a bag/sparring is an interval of anaerobic(throwing combinations, jabs, and so forth) combined with aerobic(stepping around, rest in between combinations, rest in between rounds, and so forth). This does not mean I don't believe in using methods training the anaerobic-lactic energy system, I would just use them more sparingly than others on the board use.

As for weights, yes I use them and feel it is great for resistance, and no, there is nothing wrong with weight circuits. That being said, I feel that weights provide typically only movement across a vertical plane and bands can allow for movement across a horizontal plane which is what most sports utilize to a larger degree. Yes, doing high depth jumps and heavy shock type intervals can be very taxing on the Central Nervous System and should be used sparingly and programmed intelligently but bounding, hops, plyos with low to moderate levels of intensity can be very helpful with a low risk of injury if done properly.

Hopefully this better explains my position. If I am wrong I will absolutely concede and have no problem learning something new. Although it is hard to tell a person's character over an internet forum, I am the last person who would ever prey on anyone or purposely tell people wrong for my own "fun." That would serve me no purpose whatsoever.

PK, My intention was not to be offensive, I just had some different thoughts than you, and many of the same, even if it didn't come across this way in the post.
great read thanks
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Old 09-20-2012, 04:35 PM   #32
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

Great thread !!! Once scrap, PK and von get going I'm like

Very interesting reading guys thank you
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:24 PM   #33
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

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What's your opinion on this of training twice per day.

I personally think it's ****ing retarded.
PK, thanks for the article and specifically the video. This is an awesome post.

The person on the video is so accurate with his view of the medical profession. Most of them virtually know nothing about homeopathic treatments, vitamins/minerals, and so forth. I know, I work very closely with MDs in my profession.

As far as training twice daily, if programmed properly, an athlete can be in the best shape of their life for peaking(this is the key word)for an event. However, I agree completely with your comment that boxers are chronically fatigued, and want to make very clear that while intense training may be necessary to compete at a top level, it has long term ramifications.
Under NO circumstances should anyone train twice daily longer than 6-8 weeks, and only a few days a week. It would be awful for anyone to train this way for any length of time and would lead to all types of burnout or fatigue as you say. I would be happy to post what I think this programming would look like, and folks can tell me what they think, pros and cons(that's what makes this stuff fun). I still believe only 3 hard sessions per week is necessary.

As for what Scrap was talking about, he is spot on. It is cringeworthy to see what they are doing to these kids. I see it with wrestlers, which is a popular sport in the states. In addition, some of them are close to developing eating disorders, but that's another topic.
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Old 09-21-2012, 06:31 AM   #34
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

This has been the best topic that I have seen on here in a long time.

Great info!
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Old 09-21-2012, 06:48 AM   #35
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

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Originally Posted by TVLPC View Post
PK, thanks for the article and specifically the video. This is an awesome post.

The person on the video is so accurate with his view of the medical profession. Most of them virtually know nothing about homeopathic treatments, vitamins/minerals, and so forth. I know, I work very closely with MDs in my profession.

As far as training twice daily, if programmed properly, an athlete can be in the best shape of their life for peaking(this is the key word)for an event. However, I agree completely with your comment that boxers are chronically fatigued, and want to make very clear that while intense training may be necessary to compete at a top level, it has long term ramifications.
Under NO circumstances should anyone train twice daily longer than 6-8 weeks, and only a few days a week. It would be awful for anyone to train this way for any length of time and would lead to all types of burnout or fatigue as you say. I would be happy to post what I think this programming would look like, and folks can tell me what they think, pros and cons(that's what makes this stuff fun). I still believe only 3 hard sessions per week is necessary.

As for what Scrap was talking about, he is spot on. It is cringeworthy to see what they are doing to these kids. I see it with wrestlers, which is a popular sport in the states. In addition, some of them are close to developing eating disorders, but that's another topic.
Agree with this. Training twice per day is fine as long as it's programmed properly. Unfortunately that's rarely the case with a lot of young amateur boxers that I've interacted with; I've literally spoken to people who will run every day, twice on the days that they aren't boxing training.

Again, spot on. Seeing kids going on severe calorie restricted diets to try and maintain a weight that they simply can't maintain whilst remaining healthy is far too common. I was going to start a thread earlier actually about the physiology requirements of amateur boxing coaches in the UK, because some of the protocols that I've known coaches to have their boxers on is just horrendous.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:08 AM   #36
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

Ok, how about SRR and BHop, I think these guys were training 24/7.
SRR: "I have been to training camps 10-11 months per year".

Mayweather and Pac have insane work-ethic. Mayweather, by his words and his cook, eats everythings: from burgers / sweets to healthy food. Since he constantly trains, his metabolism digests anything.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:27 AM   #37
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

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Originally Posted by NVSemin View Post
Ok, how about SRR and BHop, I think these guys were training 24/7.
SRR: "I have been to training camps 10-11 months per year".

Mayweather and Pac have insane work-ethic. Mayweather, by his words and his cook, eats everythings: from burgers / sweets to healthy food. Since he constantly trains, his metabolism digests anything.
That makes no sense. Your body recognises the nutrients contained within a food, it doesn't recognise the names of foods, ofcourse he is going to digest the foods that you mentioned.
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Old 09-21-2012, 10:52 AM   #38
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

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Originally Posted by NVSemin View Post
Ok, how about SRR and BHop, I think these guys were training 24/7.
SRR: "I have been to training camps 10-11 months per year".

Mayweather and Pac have insane work-ethic. Mayweather, by his words and his cook, eats everythings: from burgers / sweets to healthy food. Since he constantly trains, his metabolism digests anything.
when fighters say they train 24/7 I don't think you should take it so literally. it's more of a way to say there training is ongoing, and consistent. they ARE taking rest days, you can bet on that. also they are not training as hard as they would a few weeks out from a fight every single day of there life. there is an individual balance that each fighter comes to achieve.
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:34 PM   #39
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

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when fighters say they train 24/7 I don't think you should take it so literally. it's more of a way to say there training is ongoing, and consistent. they ARE taking rest days, you can bet on that. also they are not training as hard as they would a few weeks out from a fight every single day of there life. there is an individual balance that each fighter comes to achieve.
Absolutely correct.
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Old 09-21-2012, 07:15 PM   #40
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

Yeah, I heard an interview with B Hop who says when not "in camp" does a lot of swimming. I believe in athletes keeping in shape year round, that's important, but if I were a pro boxer I would train moderate intensity, 1 x daily, maybe 4 days a week.
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Old 09-22-2012, 03:39 AM   #41
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

I can't believe anyone doesn't do at least 2-3 workouts a week. I'd be so bored if I did nothing.
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Old 09-22-2012, 06:38 AM   #42
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

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I can't believe anyone doesn't do at least 2-3 workouts a week. I'd be so bored if I did nothing.
I agree. I understand taking a few weeks to a month off after a major fight or a ring war, but I remember my old boxing trainer talking about how a top pro he worked with indirectly would come into camp starting basically at ground zero due to complete inactivity. However, he was known to have a poor work ethic.
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Old 09-22-2012, 06:43 AM   #43
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

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Originally Posted by TVLPC View Post
I agree. I understand taking a few weeks to a month off after a major fight or a ring war, but I remember my old boxing trainer talking about how a top pro he worked with indirectly would come into camp starting basically at ground zero due to complete inactivity. However, he was known to have a poor work ethic.
It doesn't help that a lot of boxers will binge after a fight. When you've been in a caloric deficit for so long (as most boxers are in camp) and then just go back to eating "normally", you're going to gain a pretty significant amount of fat, sometimes a hell of a lot. The most efficient way is to reverse diet, slowly upping calories over a period of time. Being reckless just means that the next time you go into camp, a large emphasis is on making weight again.

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Old 09-22-2012, 06:45 AM   #44
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

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It doesn't help that a lot of boxers will binge after a fight. When you've been in a caloric deficit for so long (as most boxers are in camp) and then just go back to eating "normally", you're going to gain a pretty significant amount of fat, sometimes a hell of a lot. The most efficient way is to reverse diet, slowly upping calories over a period of time. Just means that the next time you go into camp, a large emphasis is on making weight again.
Good point. Remember Duran after his first Leonard fight. Of course, that is a bit of a more extreme example.
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Old 09-22-2012, 10:22 AM   #45
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Default Re: Lactate Range.

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Just in general training twice per day..? You see allot of athlete's training twice a day in most sports these days "Maybe even more", i personally just think its retarded.

I will only EVER train once per day, i will never ever change this. Apparently if you train twice per day, it's basically forcing you're body to recover faster, but it takes up to 6 months to fully adapt so they say. Also the more you train the more you're body producers cortisol, regarding to boxing i think allot of boxers get carried away with the duration of their training sessions. Training as you know is a damaging process all it is essentially is a traumatic experience for you're body, the more you train the more stress hormone which is released. Which is basically going to have a caticbolic affect on you're body, and if you continently keep releasing high amounts of stress hormone you will become chronically fatigued....

I honestly think allot of boxers are chronically fatigued but..? People in the boxing world just past them off as being shot. I honestly don't think the majority of boxers training regimes combined with diets is in the long term a great life style for any athlete..........."This trend of training multiple times per days, is the reason why most athlete's die young, or look completely ****ed when they retire".

This is the big problem i have got with this training twice per day, or 3 times per day bullshit.

I just want to know what you think..?

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That video is one of the biggest loads of shit I've ever seen. It's because of people like him that naturopaths and homeopaths are seen as quacks. A lack of selenium is the cause for all Cardiomyopathy?
Athletes don't live long lives and they look old because once they finish their careers they usually cease all exercise and let themselves go. After all the dedication over the years they're done. If you watched that video and believed it you wouldn't do any exercise. Nothing in the world prevents disease and death like physical activity does.
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