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Old 08-22-2007, 06:13 AM   #1
Sonny's jab
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Default If Holyfield beats Ibragimov .....

..... will he move up in your all-time rankings ?

I'd consider such a win almost on a par with an old Holmes beating Mercer.
It would certainly mark Holyfield's return as a top-flight contender, and will be among the best wins ever scored by 40+ fighter.

Of course, the odds are against Holyfield winning but stranger things have happened in boxing.
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Old 08-22-2007, 06:35 AM   #2
bigG
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Default Re: If Holyfield beats Ibragimov .....

...am i the only one who EXPECTS holyfield to win....what exactly does ibragimov bring to the table that is so unbeatable for this incarnation of the real deal.....
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Old 08-22-2007, 06:45 AM   #3
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Default Re: If Holyfield beats Ibragimov .....

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Originally Posted by bigG
...am i the only one who EXPECTS holyfield to win....what exactly does ibragimov bring to the table that is so unbeatable for this incarnation of the real deal.....
I expect Holyfield to win too, but I think the odds should be against him. Look at his age (almost 45) and look at the last 5 or 6 years of his career. He's got to be underdog against a "live" young unbeaten top flight contender.
I just take a leap of faith with Holyfield, he's cannot be judged ordinarily.

Ibragimov looks like a decent fighter to me. Nothing special but quite a bit better than anyone Holyfield has beat recently.
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Old 08-22-2007, 06:54 AM   #4
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Default Re: If Holyfield beats Ibragimov .....

Ibragimov is in most peoples top 10 rankings at the moment. He is in some's top 5.

It will mean that Holyfield is yet again a top contender. Credit to him, or shame on the division. It's your call.

I see the difference in the way Holyfield talks now. I don't like to see him get hit anymore. The fact is, he is winning right now. If he can prove he is a top ten contender, he is proving he is still competative. No matter how much we cringe with every large shot that hits him, if he keeps winning his argument to remain active is valid. It is his body, his mind. No matter how foolish it is, or how little some will feel he proves.

It is a governing body's responsibility to protect fighters to a certain extent, and make sure competative match ups are provided for the fans.

Again, he is winning against B or C level competition. That makes his deserving of fights against A level fighters resume wise. These commisions and santioning bodies are forced to face the fact that he is actually proving himself in the ring.

Holyfield is already in my top ten all time, I think around 9. A win over Ibragimov won't make him rise.
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Old 08-22-2007, 07:04 AM   #5
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Default Re: If Holyfield beats Ibragimov .....

looking at holyfield vs foreman for 'comebak' achievements.....foreman was much busier, but fought the rust out of his sysyem....some of his opponents and fights were glorified sparing with one outcome...tiiimber...IF holy beats ibragimov, i actually think it will be a greater acheivment than foreman beating moorer.....moorer had one thing going for him...power...and foreman had a great chin..he was never gonna be in danger of being ko'd by moorer.....moorer had a terrible chin, and foreman had great power, so, him ko'ing moorer, whilst a great acheivment, was hardly improbable or even unlikely....holyfield has looked distinctly average over the past few years....beating the oponents he has beaten in his latest comeback shouldnt give him direct access to the title..he is getting his shot because he is evander holyfield...and many of you guys rate sultan...he is an active top ten h/w who is a belt holder....if holy turns back the hands of time once or twice more, i think we can say his comeback performances performances rank greater than big georges...foreman will always be remebered more fondly cos of his projected image...big smiling george.....but beating sultan will be harder for holyfield than foreman ko'ing a weak chinned ex light heavy who doesnt really feature on anyones list of great heavyweights.....yet i expect holyfield to have too much, even at this late stage, for sultan......and cement his place as an atg...
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Old 08-22-2007, 07:07 AM   #6
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Default Re: If Holyfield beats Ibragimov .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny's jab
..... will he move up in your all-time rankings ?

I'd consider such a win almost on a par with an old Holmes beating Mercer.
It would certainly mark Holyfield's return as a top-flight contender, and will be among the best wins ever scored by 40+ fighter.

Of course, the odds are against Holyfield winning but stranger things have happened in boxing.
I think it would at least be on par with Holmes-Mercer. If Moorer wasn't linear, i would say it'd be on par with Foreman-Moorer as well. I think S. Ibragimov (in shape) is better than Mercer or Moorer. Although maybe it's too early to make that judgement.

But it would add another good name on his resume and in my opinion would be in his top5 of career best wins, below Tyson, Bowe and Ruiz. I change my top10 list all the time, but i don't think i'd be able to omit him from the top10 if he won.


By the way, i expect him to lose in the same manner as old Foreman/Holmes lost to him; he'll win some rounds and have his moments, but most of the time would be outclassed by the younger champion.


If Holyfield wins and the oppurtunity arises, would you want him to fight Wlad? Would you blame Wlad for taking that fight?
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Old 08-22-2007, 07:18 AM   #7
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Default Re: If Holyfield beats Ibragimov .....

bigG, I rank Ibragimov because I don't recognize him as the true champion of the division. I don't care that he is a belt holer. Recoginition of every belt holder as champion is what is wrong with boxing. I don't give someone's bogus title any credit, and I continue to rank them if they are not the real champ.

There is a good website, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], that has the right idea. They don't update nearly often enough, though. They are on the right track.
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Old 08-22-2007, 07:22 AM   #8
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Default Re: If Holyfield beats Ibragimov .....

i hear ya..in this day and age holding a belt can mean squat.....but many seem to rate sultan as one of the best h/ws out there today, so i'l stand by my analysis, an ageing holyfield beating sultan will, for me, rank over an ageing foreman beating moorer....tbh, holy has a lot more miles on the clock than big george did as well, this must be borne in mind too....
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Old 08-22-2007, 07:23 AM   #9
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Default Re: If Holyfield beats Ibragimov .....

Evander is one of my favorites he has always shown the desire and dtermination that makes a great fighter ,i hope he wins and doesnt get hurt but it will be no walk in the park for him......
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Old 08-22-2007, 07:26 AM   #10
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Default Re: If Holyfield beats Ibragimov .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
I think it would at least be on par with Holmes-Mercer. If Moorer wasn't linear, i would say it'd be on par with Foreman-Moorer as well. I think S. Ibragimov (in shape) is better than Mercer or Moorer. Although maybe it's too early to make that judgement.

But it would add another good name on his resume and in my opinion would be in his top5 of career best wins, below Tyson, Bowe and Ruiz. I change my top10 list all the time, but i don't think i'd be able to omit him from the top10 if he won.


By the way, i expect him to lose in the same manner as old Foreman/Holmes lost to him; he'll win some rounds and have his moments, but most of the time would be outclassed by the younger champion.
You rate Ibragimov quite highly then. Were you impressed by him against Briggs ?

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If Holyfield wins and the oppurtunity arises, would you want him to fight Wlad? Would you blame Wlad for taking that fight?
If Holyfield wins of course he should fight Wlad Klitschko. I dont see what the fuss is about.
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Old 08-22-2007, 08:10 AM   #11
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Default Re: If Holyfield beats Ibragimov .....

Sultan isn't much, so beating him isn't much of an accomplishment even for a 45 year old .The only reason these two are even players is the dismal state of the heavyweight division.Holyfield should win, but I wish David Haye would move up to heavy and beat all of these pretenders.
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Old 08-22-2007, 08:18 AM   #12
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Default Re: If Holyfield beats Ibragimov .....

If he beats Ibragimov it proves that he can still beat a top 10 fighter which definitely is a major achievement at his age, but not quite enough to move him up on ATG rankings. If he should beat Wlad though (which is almost as unlikely to happen as John McEnroe coming back to beat Roger Federer in the Wimbledon final) he will definitely move up on most people's lists, and probably by more than one spot at that.
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Old 08-22-2007, 08:27 AM   #13
bigG
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Default Re: If Holyfield beats Ibragimov .....

realistically, in this day and age where we have one champ who is generally perceived to be head and shoulders above the rest...IF holyfield beats sultan and maybe grabs another belt, then IF he does beat klitschko, where does he move to in the atg heavyweight list.......
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Old 08-22-2007, 01:10 PM   #14
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Default Re: If Holyfield beats Ibragimov .....

Accomplishment-wise, this would be a very solid shot-in-the-arm for Holyfield's legacy. He's been drifting around the fringes of my top 10 for the last few years, and this win would probably secure him the spot.
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Old 08-22-2007, 04:49 PM   #15
ChrisPontius
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Default Re: If Holyfield beats Ibragimov .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny's jab
You rate Ibragimov quite highly then. Were you impressed by him against Briggs ?
Yes i was. I wasn't particularly flattered by his performance against Austin, but i think that was because he was 10-15 pounds overweight.

Against Briggs he fought the perfect fight, gave Briggs no chance, boxed safe and landed hard, accurate straight lefts (he's a southpaw) and had Briggs hurt a few times. He won 11 out of 12 rounds. He's not special in the sense that he has great speed or great power, but he is fairly skilled, very motivated. He also took a few hard flush right hands from Briggs (the ones that dropped Liakhovic, who survived Brewsters bombs) without showing signs of being hurt and staying by his fightplan instead of slugging it out or getting gunshy: he has a fighters heart.

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If Holyfield wins of course he should fight Wlad Klitschko. I dont see what the fuss is about.
The fuss is about Holyfield getting killed in the ring

Seriously though, i think Wlad is already a very hard stylistic matchup for Holyfield: fights tall, behind a very fast and hard jab and moves well. The tools to offset that (speed and workrate) are faded too much now because of his age.
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