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Old 08-20-2007, 06:25 PM   #1
Renofan
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Default Top 10 Middleweights of the 1950's

I'm curious as to who the more knowledgable members on this forum think are the top 10 middleweights from 1950 to 1959. I'm sure most will have Sugar Ray Robinson as #1, but where do the rest come in?
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Old 08-20-2007, 06:38 PM   #2
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Default Re: Top 10 Middleweights of the 1950's

On ability?

1. Ray Robinson
2. Joey Giardello
3. Gene Fullmer
4. Randolph Turpin
5. Dick Tiger
6. Carmen Basilio
7. Carl Olson
8. Jake LaMotta

Those are the main ones. The next two places could be occupied by a number of contenders; Rocky Castellani, Paul Pender, Joey Giambra etc.
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Old 08-20-2007, 07:05 PM   #3
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Default Re: Top 10 Middleweights of the 1950's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manassa
On ability?

1. Ray Robinson
2. Joey Giardello
3. Gene Fullmer
4. Randolph Turpin
5. Dick Tiger
6. Carmen Basilio
7. Carl Olson
8. Jake LaMotta

Those are the main ones. The next two places could be occupied by a number of contenders; Rocky Castellani, Paul Pender, Joey Giambra etc.
I would definately consider Charles Humez for the lower half of the top ten

The 50's middles were'nt really that great in fairness (though not as bad as the 30's)
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Old 08-20-2007, 07:46 PM   #4
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Default Re: Top 10 Middleweights of the 1950's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manassa
On ability?

1. Ray Robinson
2. Joey Giardello
3. Gene Fullmer
4. Randolph Turpin
5. Dick Tiger
6. Carmen Basilio
7. Carl Olson
8. Jake LaMotta

Those are the main ones. The next two places could be occupied by a number of contenders; Rocky Castellani, Paul Pender, Joey Giambra etc.
Fullmer at 3!,I dont see it
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Old 08-20-2007, 07:51 PM   #5
Tommy Hearns
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Default Re: Top 10 Middleweights of the 1950's

On accomplishments and ability:

1. Ray Robinson
2. Gene Fullmer
3. Joey Giardello
4. Dick Tiger
5. Eduardo Lausse
6. Ellsworth Webb
7. Henry Hank
8. Holly Mims
9. Joey Giambra
10. Randy Turpin

Before the flaming begins, this is a rough list.
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Old 08-21-2007, 03:49 AM   #6
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Default Re: Top 10 Middleweights of the 1950's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Hearns
On accomplishments and ability:

1. Ray Robinson
2. Gene Fullmer
3. Joey Giardello
4. Dick Tiger
5. Eduardo Lausse
6. Ellsworth Webb
7. Henry Hank
8. Holly Mims
9. Joey Giambra
10. Randy Turpin

Before the flaming begins, this is a rough list.
please ammend Randy's ranking, if your basing this on ability, then Beating a peak SRR and going close to beating him in the rematch, warrants a much higher ranking
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Old 08-21-2007, 04:34 AM   #7
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Default Re: Top 10 Middleweights of the 1950's

This is a list of the best Middleweights in the 50's.
at the end of 1959
This is no order

Ray Robinson (141-6-2)
Gene Fullmer (50-4-0)
Dick Tiger (35-13-2)
Joey Giardello (83-17-5)
Jake LaMotta (83-19-4) (Retired in 1954)
Carl Olsen (76-10-0)
Randy Turpin (64-7-1)
Del Flanagan (94-16-2)
Dave Sands (97-10-1) (Died in 1952 in car crash aged 26)
Gustav Scholz (74-1-4)
Joey Giambra (56-5-2)
Paul Pender (34-5-2)
Terry Downes (19-6-0)
Henry Hank (38-10-1)

There is a few good fighters in there.
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Old 08-21-2007, 04:45 AM   #8
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Default Re: Top 10 Middleweights of the 1950's

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobkhan
I would like to mention Gustav Scholz. Never got a shot at the title at mw but beat just about everybody in Europe and won the European championship from the earier mentioned Humez, which is more worth than some of the alphabet titles today.
i feel for Dave Sands.

In 1949
Dave Sands vs Dick Turpin- Sands W KO 1
in 1950
Dave Sands vs Carl Olsen- Sands W PTS 12
in 1951
Dave Sands vs Carl Olsen- Sands W UD 10

Dave Sands never got a title shot either and beat Two of the best getting around and his KO over Turpin was brutal.
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Old 08-21-2007, 04:59 AM   #9
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Default Re: Top 10 Middleweights of the 1950's

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoppaZoo
i feel for Dave Sands.

In 1949
Dave Sands vs Dick Turpin- Sands W KO 1
in 1950
Dave Sands vs Carl Olsen- Sands W PTS 12
in 1951
Dave Sands vs Carl Olsen- Sands W UD 10

Dave Sands never got a title shot either and beat Two of the best getting around and his KO over Turpin was brutal.
you do realize Dick Turpin is Randy Turpins brother
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Old 08-21-2007, 05:13 AM   #10
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Default Re: Top 10 Middleweights of the 1950's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemesis
you do realize Dick Turpin is Randy Turpins brother
Yes but Dick was no Chump. with a record with (77-20-6)
Both the Turpins were very good fighters.

my whole point was beating Olsen twice and Turpin aswell as Villemain
before he was 26 years old then dying in his Prime and missing a World Title fight against say Sugar Ray is just plain unfair.

Sands was a talent end of story.
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Old 08-21-2007, 06:53 AM   #11
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Default Re: Top 10 Middleweights of the 1950's

My list:

1. SRR
2. Gene Fullmer
3. Carmen Basilio
4. Joey Giardello
5. Dick Tiger
6. Carl Olson
7. Randy Turpin
8. Jake La Motta
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Old 08-21-2007, 11:47 AM   #12
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Default Re: Top 10 Middleweights of the 1950's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemesis
please ammend Randy's ranking, if your basing this on ability, then Beating a peak SRR and going close to beating him in the rematch, warrants a much higher ranking
What fighter(s) do you think he should be ranked over?
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Old 08-21-2007, 01:07 PM   #13
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Default Re: Top 10 Middleweights of the 1950's

6-9
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Old 08-21-2007, 02:32 PM   #14
Tommy Hearns
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Default Re: Top 10 Middleweights of the 1950's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemesis
6-9
There's not much seperating the fighters between 6-10; let's break them down.

6. Ellsworth Webb:

Record During 50s: 33-5-0
Best Wins: Holly Mims (UD 10), Joey Giardello (TKO 7), Dick Tiger (UD 10)

Webb's performance against Giardello is the main reason I placed him this high; the manner in which he countered the counter puncher and showed such excellent judgment of distance and range was truly brilliant. Never have I seen someone outclass a young Giardello in such fashion. Victories over Mims and Tiger aren't bad either.

7. Henry Hank

Record During 50s: 39-10-1
Best Wins: Neal Rivers (KO 4), Holly Mims (UD 10), George Benton (UD 10)

Inconsistency has always plagued Hank’s career, and it does hurt his standing a bit, but those two top quality wins over cagey technicians like Mims and Benton (in which George, a known defensive guru, was in a bit of trouble near the end) in particular indicate a very capable fighter. Not your run of the mill swarmer, Giardello later called him the hardest puncher he had ever faced.

8. Holly Mims

Record During 50s: 35-16-2
Best Wins: Milo Savage (MD 10), Spider Webb (UD 10), George Benton (UD 10), Henry Hank (SD 10)

A top tier ring mechanic whose boxing ability often overshadows his infighting skills and overall well rounded knowledge in his craft. In only his third year as a pro, he gave a much more experienced Robinson a difficult nights work, cutting him in the process. His top wins and ability save him from his spotty record, which isn’t all his fault to begin with; it is well known that Mims took fights on short notice or wore the cuffs during his career.

9. Joey Giambra

Record During 50s: 53-5-1
Best Wins: Joey Giardello (UD, SD 10), Gil Turner (SD 10), Rocky Castellani (UD 10) x2

Another crafty and underrated contender characteristic of the era. Probably deserves to be higher, especially considering that many believe he deserved the nod in the ‘Bobo’ Olson fight, in which his opponent came in comfortably over the middleweight limit. He was rated in the Ring magazine’s top 10 for over a decade, but was only given a title shot once late in his career; it’s what earned him the moniker as “The Champion Without a Title”. My knowledge on him is more limited than the others, hence the lower rating.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Turpin’s awkwardness and strength would present problems for anyone, but I get the feeling that much of his legacy is based on solely on catching a seemingly invincible Robinson off guard and escaping with the decision. He would always be a troublesome opponent for anyone at the 160 pound mark, but his body of work at the weight isn’t very extensive and ultimately prevents a potentially much higher rating; half way through the fifties he jumped up in weight to light heavy. Not to say his current standing on my list is permanent, however. Wins over Charles Humez and Tommy Yarosz are impressive.
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Old 08-21-2007, 03:40 PM   #15
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Default Re: Top 10 Middleweights of the 1950's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Hearns
There's not much seperating the fighters between 6-10; let's break them down.

6. Ellsworth Webb:

Record During 50s: 33-5-0
Best Wins: Holly Mims (UD 10), Joey Giardello (TKO 7), Dick Tiger (UD 10)

Webb's performance against Giardello is the main reason I placed him this high; the manner in which he countered the counter puncher and showed such excellent judgment of distance and range was truly brilliant. Never have I seen someone outclass a young Giardello in such fashion. Victories over Mims and Tiger aren't bad either.

7. Henry Hank

Record During 50s: 39-10-1
Best Wins: Neal Rivers (KO 4), Holly Mims (UD 10), George Benton (UD 10)

Inconsistency has always plagued Hank’s career, and it does hurt his standing a bit, but those two top quality wins over cagey technicians like Mims and Benton (in which George, a known defensive guru, was in a bit of trouble near the end) in particular indicate a very capable fighter. Not your run of the mill swarmer, Giardello later called him the hardest puncher he had ever faced.

8. Holly Mims

Record During 50s: 35-16-2
Best Wins: Milo Savage (MD 10), Spider Webb (UD 10), George Benton (UD 10), Henry Hank (SD 10)

A top tier ring mechanic whose boxing ability often overshadows his infighting skills and overall well rounded knowledge in his craft. In only his third year as a pro, he gave a much more experienced Robinson a difficult nights work, cutting him in the process. His top wins and ability save him from his spotty record, which isn’t all his fault to begin with; it is well known that Mims took fights on short notice or wore the cuffs during his career.

9. Joey Giambra

Record During 50s: 53-5-1
Best Wins: Joey Giardello (UD, SD 10), Gil Turner (SD 10), Rocky Castellani (UD 10) x2

Another crafty and underrated contender characteristic of the era. Probably deserves to be higher, especially considering that many believe he deserved the nod in the ‘Bobo’ Olson fight, in which his opponent came in comfortably over the middleweight limit. He was rated in the Ring magazine’s top 10 for over a decade, but was only given a title shot once late in his career; it’s what earned him the moniker as “The Champion Without a Title”. My knowledge on him is more limited than the others, hence the lower rating.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Turpin’s awkwardness and strength would present problems for anyone, but I get the feeling that much of his legacy is based on solely on catching a seemingly invincible Robinson off guard and escaping with the decision. He would always be a troublesome opponent for anyone at the 160 pound mark, but his body of work at the weight isn’t very extensive and ultimately prevents a potentially much higher rating; half way through the fifties he jumped up in weight to light heavy. Not to say his current standing on my list is permanent, however. Wins over Charles Humez and Tommy Yarosz are impressive.
Thanks for replying TH, Whilst you've brought some interesting info to my attention, i would contend "catching Robinson off guard", as even SRR admitted that Turpin soundly beat him (the decision wasnt remotely contentious). Even in the rematch which i had Robinson up by only a point at the time of stoppage, Turpin was coming on and gave Robinson fits too.

I wouldnt say Robinson was out of shape going in as he had ideal preparation fighting the likes of Jean Stock, and van dam. Lest we not forget Robinson record going in something like 129-1-1.

Turpin's main problem was his fragile mentality as he lets his indescretions between the sheets affect his performances in the ring, especially his affair's leading upto the Olson fight put him in a bad state of mind as he was having his way for the first 3 rounds and as soon as got hit back he went into survival mode.

My point being is when ranking someone on ability, you should view them on his best night, and on Turpin's he beat the greatest fighter ever (who happened to be very close to his peak).
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