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Old 08-22-2007, 07:14 PM   #1
Bummy Davis
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Default Prime Ezzard Charles vs ATG's

I would say Charles was close to his prime when he fought Marciano the 1st fight in 1954 but he was 32, lets say his prime was when he stopped Rex Layne in 1951 at 29 years of age,Charles beat some great fighters, like Elmer Ray,Jimmy Bivens,Archie Moore,Joey Maxin,,Joe Walcott,Joe Louis,Gus Lesnevich, and some good heavy contenders, Bob Satterfield,Joe Baksi,Pat Valentino,Nick Barone,Cesar Brione,Bernie Reynalds,Billy Gilliam,Coley Wallace,Johnny Haynes,Rex Layne

How would Charles do Vs your top 10 Heavyweights ATG

1) Louis UD 15
2)Marciano Close UD
3) Ali, close UD 15
4)Dempsey SD 15
5)Frazier SD 15
6)Charles TKO13 over George Foreman
7)Lennox Lewis..SD 15
Gene Tunney D15
9)Charles UD Tyson
10Charles SD Holmes
11)Charles UD Liston
12)Charles UD Baer
13)Charles SD Schmeling
14)Charles UD Holyfield
15)Charles UD Jeffries/Johnson
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Old 08-22-2007, 07:52 PM   #2
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Default Re: Prime Ezzard Charles vs ATG's

Charles was at his best at LT.Heavy.IMO his best years were from 46 to 51.After his loss to Walcott he started to slip.After the second Marciano fight he was just about through.Ez was an ATG.heavy but not a top 10.A top 15 definitly.
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Old 08-22-2007, 08:15 PM   #3
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Default Re: Prime Ezzard Charles vs ATG's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
I think you overestimate him if you think he beats Tyson at HW. At LHW is where he truly shines. Best ever at the weight.
My sentiment exactly. Though, I think Moore may be better at Light Heavyweight - obviously not head to head, however.
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Old 08-22-2007, 08:16 PM   #4
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Default Re: Prime Ezzard Charles vs ATG's

I can't see him beating a prime Foreman, prime Tyson, or prime Holmes. Let's put him up against the ATG light heavyweights.
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Old 08-22-2007, 08:38 PM   #5
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Default Re: Prime Ezzard Charles vs ATG's

I am Talking about the best Charles on his best night but he could lose or be Ko'd by some of thoses men,just want to give Ezzard a tribute
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Old 08-23-2007, 05:24 AM   #6
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Default Re: Prime Ezzard Charles vs ATG's

Charles is made for Tyson, absolutely to order.
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Old 08-23-2007, 07:38 AM   #7
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Default Re: Prime Ezzard Charles vs ATG's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bummy Davis
I would say Charles was close to his prime when he fought Marciano the 1st fight in 1954 but he was 32, lets say his prime was when he stopped Rex Layne in 1951 at 29 years of age,Charles beat some great fighters, like Elmer Ray,Jimmy Bivens,Archie Moore,Joey Maxin,,Joe Walcott,Joe Louis,Gus Lesnevich, and some good heavy contenders, Bob Satterfield,Joe Baksi,Pat Valentino,Nick Barone,Cesar Brione,Bernie Reynalds,Billy Gilliam,Coley Wallace,Johnny Haynes,Rex Layne

How would Charles do Vs your top 10 Heavyweights ATG

1) Louis UD 15
2)Marciano Close UD
3) Ali, close UD 15
4)Dempsey SD 15
5)Frazier SD 15
6)Charles TKO13 over George Foreman
7)Lennox Lewis..SD 15
Gene Tunney D15
9)Charles UD Tyson
10Charles SD Holmes
11)Charles UD Liston
12)Charles UD Baer
13)Charles SD Schmeling
14)Charles UD Holyfield
15)Charles UD Jeffries/Johnson
Wow. You think Charles beats Foreman, Tyson, Holmes, Liston, Jeffries, Johnson, and Holyfield? Not a chance. Charles would have to be the all time #1 heavyweight to do this. I think he likely gets knocked out in all of the above fights. Charles did not have a big punch at heavyweight, and his whiskers were not up to heavyweight par either. While he was skilled, he had a brawling toe to toe type of style, and this would be his downfall vs most punchers, and men bigger and stronger ( all of the above guys ) than him.

I would give Charles a good chance to outbox an apathetic Baer, or TKO Schmeling though.
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Old 08-23-2007, 09:27 AM   #8
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Default Re: Prime Ezzard Charles vs ATG's

Ali UD Charles (8-6-1)
Charles UD Liston (9-6)
Jeffries KO 13 Charles
Charles TKO 8 Corbett
Charles TKO 12 Fitzsimmons
Frazier TKO 10 Charles
Charles UD Foreman (10-5)
Tunney UD Charles (9-6)
Charles UD Tyson (8-7)
Charles UD Holmes (8-7)
Lewis TKO 5 Charles
Marciano KO 14 Charles
Charles UD Baer (11-4)
Dempsey TKO 7 Charles
Charles UD Holyfield (9-6)
Charles UD Johnson (9-6)
Louis TKO 9 Charles
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Old 08-23-2007, 01:24 PM   #9
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Default Re: Prime Ezzard Charles vs ATG's

I think he would beat Dempsey, Marciano and Tunney in his prime however Tyson, Holmes and Liston would beat him.
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Old 08-23-2007, 02:38 PM   #10
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Default Re: Prime Ezzard Charles vs ATG's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi1985
Ali UD Charles (8-6-1)
Charles UD Liston (9-6)
Jeffries KO 13 Charles
Charles TKO 8 Corbett
Charles TKO 12 Fitzsimmons
Frazier TKO 10 Charles
Charles UD Foreman (10-5)
Tunney UD Charles (9-6)
Charles UD Tyson (8-7)
Charles UD Holmes (8-7)
Lewis TKO 5 Charles
Marciano KO 14 Charles
Charles UD Baer (11-4)
Dempsey TKO 7 Charles
Charles UD Holyfield (9-6)
Charles UD Johnson (9-6)
Louis TKO 9 Charles

Interesting picks and believable, I was watching a lot of Charles films when he was at his best and I know I always underated him but he would do a lot better than I thought. I gave him the benifit of the doubt that he would come in to each fight at his best which we know just does not happen but Charles would upset a lot of Favorites on a given night, its just hard to be that consistant
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Old 08-23-2007, 02:42 PM   #11
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Default Re: Prime Ezzard Charles vs ATG's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bummy Davis
I would say Charles was close to his prime when he fought Marciano the 1st fight in 1954 but he was 32, lets say his prime was when he stopped Rex Layne in 1951 at 29 years of age,Charles beat some great fighters, like Elmer Ray,Jimmy Bivens,Archie Moore,Joey Maxin,,Joe Walcott,Joe Louis,Gus Lesnevich, and some good heavy contenders, Bob Satterfield,Joe Baksi,Pat Valentino,Nick Barone,Cesar Brione,Bernie Reynalds,Billy Gilliam,Coley Wallace,Johnny Haynes,Rex Layne

How would Charles do Vs your top 10 Heavyweights ATG

1) Louis UD 15
2)Marciano Close UD
3) Ali, close UD 15
4)Dempsey SD 15
5)Frazier SD 15
6)Charles TKO13 over George Foreman
7)Lennox Lewis..SD 15
Gene Tunney D15
9)Charles UD Tyson
10Charles SD Holmes
11)Charles UD Liston
12)Charles UD Baer
13)Charles SD Schmeling
14)Charles UD Holyfield
15)Charles UD Jeffries/Johnson
I agree with many of your picks, except for some differences:

I think Louis would knock Charles out, as well as Frazier (bad stylistic matchup).
Charles was better than Tunney in my opinion, as lightheavyweight as well as heavyweight, i think he'd beat Tunney at either weight, by decision. I also think Lewis would knock Charles out. Holmes would be a hard fight and he could beat Foreman, but i have to favor Foreman here.
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Old 08-23-2007, 02:48 PM   #12
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Default Re: Prime Ezzard Charles vs ATG's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza
Wow. You think Charles beats Foreman, Tyson, Holmes, Liston, Jeffries, Johnson, and Holyfield? Not a chance. Charles would have to be the all time #1 heavyweight to do this. I think he likely gets knocked out in all of the above fights. Charles did not have a big punch at heavyweight, and his whiskers were not up to heavyweight par either. While he was skilled, he had a brawling toe to toe type of style, and this would be his downfall vs most punchers, and men bigger and stronger ( all of the above guys ) than him.

I would give Charles a good chance to outbox an apathetic Baer, or TKO Schmeling though.
He would definatly be hard pressed but I picked the very best CHarles to be able to upset Foreman, Peralta was not near Charles and he gave him trouble and Young beat Foreman, Charles hit harder than both men and would land a lot on Foreman, he would have to be carefull for Georges power, Tyson would be tough because of the early rounds but Charles was tough and if he got past the early rounds could do what Evander did. Charles was better than Spinks,Norton, Holmes would be a tough fight but Charles had a good right, Fight could go either way. I think Charles could fight Johnson and box Jeffries to win decisions but remember all these fights are based on the very best Charles on his best night. Its hard for me to see him beating them all but on a given night he has a chance to beat each one i mentioned IMO
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Old 08-23-2007, 08:00 PM   #13
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Default Re: Prime Ezzard Charles vs ATG's

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
I agree with many of your picks, except for some differences:

I think Louis would knock Charles out, as well as Frazier (bad stylistic matchup).
Charles was better than Tunney in my opinion, as lightheavyweight as well as heavyweight, i think he'd beat Tunney at either weight, by decision. I also think Lewis would knock Charles out. Holmes would be a hard fight and he could beat Foreman, but i have to favor Foreman here.

all very logical, i could see it happening that way also, I just recently watched a lot of Charles early fights, Barone,Valentino,Layne,Marciano,Louis,Satterfeild etc and refreshed my respect for him, he should have retired after the 2nd Marciano fight because he took a terrific pounding in those fights and was not the same after. He could fight a puncher on the inside and avoid a lot of shots and had good power in either hand but he was KO'd by Walcott(one Punch) but Walcott would have Ko'd just about any Heavyweight with that punch(just about)
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Old 08-24-2007, 08:33 AM   #14
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Default Re: Prime Ezzard Charles vs ATG's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bummy Davis
but Walcott would have Ko'd just about any Heavyweight with that punch(just about)
Marciano got up from a similar punch though, but that's more a testament to his chin than Walcotts power.
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