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Old 05-28-2009, 09:51 AM   #16
mcvey
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries book/ A Man Among Men

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Originally Posted by aappty View Post
ok, i'm a newb so in the interests of starting out nice and gentle i'm going to launch straight into a good old fashioned race debate.

imo it is most unfair to the legacy of one of the greatest fighters ever, jeffries, to hang him because he drew the color line as champion.

yes, with the hindsight of 100 years, equality of race (at least cosmetically) and the comfort of cyber space, we can all say that was very wrong and a black mark on our culture's history. hell yeah, agreement all round.

however, when people mention this they invariably fail to mention that the great black hero, jack johnson also drew the color line as champion.

yes, johnson gets every excuse in the book ie no money in it, promoters wouldn't have a bar of it, he fought em when he was up and coming, etc etc BULL SHIT!

every single excuse johnson gets applies to jeffries too and, if anyone had a more ethical reason to fight blacks, it was jack. afterall he was given a chance wasn't he. mcvey, jeanette, langford spent their entire respective peaks begging jack to give them a chance and he refused.

oh yes, further down the track when jack was strapped for cash he gave the nod to jim johnson...come on, with all due respect to jim he didn't hold a candle to aformentioned 3.

jeff and jack both fought blacks on their way up.

jeff and jack both drew the color line when they became champions.

jeff and jack are 2 of the greatest champions of all time and certainly dominant champions during their peaks, albeit with completely different styles.

facts minus the excuses.
Sorry but there is CRUCIAL DIFFERENCE ,if Johnson accepted the challenge of a black fighter ,it would mean that whoever won, the Champion would STILL be Black,something that White America did NOT want.Jefffries made a public statement ,reprinted many times that he would Not take a chance on defending against a black challenger,in case he lost the title.
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:36 AM   #17
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries book/ A Man Among Men

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Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Sorry but there is CRUCIAL DIFFERENCE ,if Johnson accepted the challenge of a black fighter ,it would mean that whoever won, the Champion would STILL be Black,something that White America did NOT want.Jefffries made a public statement ,reprinted many times that he would Not take a chance on defending against a black challenger,in case he lost the title.
Are you aware that Jack Johnson did in fact defend his title once vs a black man? It happened in the Jack Johnson vs Jim Battling Johnson title fight. You are wrong again McVey.

Johnson had various offers to fight black contenders, and could make ANY fight he wanted to, maybe not in all locations of the world but the matches could have been made. It did not matter what white America wanted, Jack Johnson picked his own opponents. It the fight was not suitable in the USA, he fought in another nation.

As for Jeffries he did share the ring as champion in a 4 round exhibition match with black contender Hank Griffin, and returned as the lineal champion in a match vs Johnson. In the eyes of many, since Jeffries retired un-beaten as champion, he still was the champion. You could argue that Jeffries defended his lineal title vs Johnson.

Had Johnson defeated Hart, the money might have changed Jeffries mind. We will never know. Fighters often say one thing, then change their mind when the money is too great to say no. Johnson failed to impress vs Hart. The public had little interest to see Hart vs Jeffires, so Jeffries retired. There was little money to be made for him in boxing. When there was a hume amount money to be made, Jeffries returned.

If Lennox Lewis came out of retirement today, he would still be the lineal champion.
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Old 05-28-2009, 11:35 AM   #18
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries book/ A Man Among Men

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Are you aware that Jack Johnson did in fact defend his title once vs a black man? It happened in the Jack Johnson vs Jim Battling Johnson title fight. You are wrong again McVey.

Johnson had various offers to fight black contenders, and could make ANY fight he wanted to, maybe not in all locations of the world but the matches could have been made. It did not matter what white America wanted, Jack Johnson picked his own opponents. It the fight was not suitable in the USA, he fought in another nation.

As for Jeffries he did share the ring as champion in a 4 round exhibition match with black contender Hank Griffin, and returned as the lineal champion in a match vs Johnson. In the eyes of many, since Jeffries retired un-beaten as champion, he still was the champion. You could argue that Jeffries defended his lineal title vs Johnson.

Had Johnson defeated Hart, the money might have changed Jeffries mind. We will never know. Fighters often say one thing, then change their mind when the money is too great to say no. Johnson failed to impress vs Hart. The public had little interest to see Hart vs Jeffires, so Jeffries retired. There was little money to be made for him in boxing. When there was a hume amount money to be made, Jeffries returned.

If Lennox Lewis came out of retirement today, he would still be the lineal champion.
Go away you silly ***t.
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:06 PM   #19
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries book/ A Man Among Men

I dont think if Lewis came out of retirement, he would be the lineal champ.

Just like Robinson comeing out of retirement and loseing to Tiger Jones. Did beating Robinson make Jones the champion?? And the likes of Fullmer, Carman, and others non champs?
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Old 05-28-2009, 01:59 PM   #20
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Default Re: Jim Jeffries book/ A Man Among Men

Quote:
Originally Posted by aappty View Post
ok, i'm a newb so in the interests of starting out nice and gentle i'm going to launch straight into a good old fashioned race debate.

imo it is most unfair to the legacy of one of the greatest fighters ever, jeffries, to hang him because he drew the color line as champion.

yes, with the hindsight of 100 years, equality of race (at least cosmetically) and the comfort of cyber space, we can all say that was very wrong and a black mark on our culture's history. hell yeah, agreement all round.

however, when people mention this they invariably fail to mention that the great black hero, jack johnson also drew the color line as champion.

yes, johnson gets every excuse in the book ie no money in it, promoters wouldn't have a bar of it, he fought em when he was up and coming, etc etc BULL SHIT!

every single excuse johnson gets applies to jeffries too and, if anyone had a more ethical reason to fight blacks, it was jack. afterall he was given a chance wasn't he. mcvey, jeanette, langford spent their entire respective peaks begging jack to give them a chance and he refused.

oh yes, further down the track when jack was strapped for cash he gave the nod to jim johnson...come on, with all due respect to jim he didn't hold a candle to aformentioned 3.

jeff and jack both fought blacks on their way up.

jeff and jack both drew the color line when they became champions.

jeff and jack are 2 of the greatest champions of all time and certainly dominant champions during their peaks, albeit with completely different styles.

facts minus the excuses.
You need to post more.
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