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Old 03-02-2014, 03:45 PM   #1
janitor
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Default The heavyweight champion as a political tool, history repeats itself!

About a six months ago we debated which of the current crop of fighters would get into the Hall of Fame. Most people thought that Wladamir Klitschko was a slam dunk, but many weren’t so sure about Vitally. I submit that recent events in Kiev, outside the ring have sealed it.

In the 1930s the heavyweight division was highly politicised. You had:

A German heavyweight champion who was used as a propaganda tool by Hitler.

An Italian heavyweight champion who was used as a propaganda tool by Mussolini.

A Jewish heavyweight champion who was used as a propaganda tool by the American Jewish lobby.

A black heavyweight champion who was used as a propaganda tool by the civil rights movement.

We have just seen Vitally Klitschko perform a similar role for the Ukranian opposition, and the Russian government has responded by deploying Nicolai Valuev to the streets of Sevastopol.

The Klitschkos are a throwback in more ways than one. They are intellectual champions in the mould of Jack Johnson and Max Schmeling. Men who would probably not have gone into boxing in post war America, because they would have found other ways to support themselves. Like Joe Louis they are not carried by the political situation, they are forced to actively change it.

The entry of Eastern Europe into the boxing game has brought back some trends that we assumed were gone forever.
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Old 03-02-2014, 04:04 PM   #2
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Default Re: The heavyweight champion as a political tool, history repeats itself!

If I am reading you correctly, Janitor, and you are arguing that Garfield was not really a lazy cat but merely suffering a lifelong, systemic candidiasis, I have to say it is a compelling theory. But I cannot claim to agree without further discussion.
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Old 03-02-2014, 04:07 PM   #3
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Default Re: The heavyweight champion as a political tool, history repeats itself!

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
and the Russian government has responded by deploying Nicolai Valuev to the streets of Sevastopol.
Is this true?

BTW, these events are making me quite uneasy… and they should for all of you… many far reaching implications. I have been through one Cold War and that was quite enough.
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Old 03-02-2014, 04:41 PM   #4
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Default Re: The heavyweight champion as a political tool, history repeats itself!

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Is this true?
Yes.

They never fought in the ring, but they are fighting now.

Quote:
BTW, these events are making me quite uneasy… and they should for all of you… many far reaching implications. I have been through one Cold War and that was quite enough.
We are definitely thinking along the same wavelength here.

Who would have thought that we would be looking at a major European war in 2014?

I guess the date is at least ironic!
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Old 03-02-2014, 05:04 PM   #5
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Default Re: The heavyweight champion as a political tool, history repeats itself!

Im speechless...
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Old 03-02-2014, 05:41 PM   #6
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Default Re: The heavyweight champion as a political tool, history repeats itself!

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
About a six months ago we debated which of the current crop of fighters would get into the Hall of Fame. Most people thought that Wladamir Klitschko was a slam dunk, but many weren’t so sure about Vitally. I submit that recent events in Kiev, outside the ring have sealed it.

In the 1930s the heavyweight division was highly politicised. You had:

A German heavyweight champion who was used as a propaganda tool by Hitler.

An Italian heavyweight champion who was used as a propaganda tool by Mussolini.

A Jewish heavyweight champion who was used as a propaganda tool by the American Jewish lobby.

A black heavyweight champion who was used as a propaganda tool by the civil rights movement.

We have just seen Vitally Klitschko perform a similar role for the Ukranian opposition, and the Russian government has responded by deploying Nicolai Valuev to the streets of Sevastopol.

The Klitschkos are a throwback in more ways than one. They are intellectual champions in the mould of Jack Johnson and Max Schmeling. Men who would probably not have gone into boxing in post war America, because they would have found other ways to support themselves. Like Joe Louis they are not carried by the political situation, they are forced to actively change it.

The entry of Eastern Europe into the boxing game has brought back some trends that we assumed were gone forever.
I'm not sure I get your point here .. are you saying some fighters made it into the hall because of political actions outside the ring in addition to their performances inside it ? If that is the case it seems like the examples above are all over the place w regards to their impact in addition to the level of their participation and their willingness to participate .. before I respond more I think I need to understand the point of the thread ..
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Old 03-02-2014, 05:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: The heavyweight champion as a political tool, history repeats itself!

[quote=janitor;16042818]
Quote:


Yes.

They never fought in the ring, but they are fighting now.



We are definitely thinking along the same wavelength here.

Who would have thought that we would be looking at a major European war in 2014?

I guess the date is at least ironic!
chinas being kept busy with the mass railway stabbings, i really hope the US stays out of this one
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Old 03-02-2014, 05:57 PM   #8
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Default Re: The heavyweight champion as a political tool, history repeats itself!

Quote:
Originally Posted by he grant View Post
I'm not sure I get your point here .. are you saying some fighters made it into the hall because of political actions outside the ring in addition to their performances inside it ? If that is the case it seems like the examples above are all over the place w regards to their impact in addition to the level of their participation and their willingness to participate .. before I respond more I think I need to understand the point of the thread ..
You got too focused on the first paragraph.

I am saying that we are seeing a return to the 30s, when a heavyweight champion was a serious tool for global politics.

I wish it was otherwise!
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Old 03-02-2014, 05:59 PM   #9
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Default Re: The heavyweight champion as a political tool, history repeats itself!

[quote=janitor;16042818]
Quote:


We are definitely thinking along the same wavelength here.

Who would have thought that we would be looking at a major European war in 2014?

I guess the date is at least ironic!
Don't know if we they will hold out till August… But the idea of some super nationalists of a divided land and a great power starting shit one hundred years later is bit eerie...
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Old 03-02-2014, 06:16 PM   #10
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Default Re: The heavyweight champion as a political tool, history repeats itself!

OK .. got it .. I think the difference w Vitali is that he is a highly educated man who has pursued a political career on his own for a long time .. that being said, I am a big fan of his
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Old 03-02-2014, 07:19 PM   #11
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Default Re: The heavyweight champion as a political tool, history repeats itself!

Vitali is going to become a martyr I'm afraid. I'm worried Wlad might get it too by association. This is some intense stuff.
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Old 03-03-2014, 04:31 AM   #12
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Default Re: The heavyweight champion as a political tool, history repeats itself!

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
You got too focused on the first paragraph.

I am saying that we are seeing a return to the 30s, when a heavyweight champion was a serious tool for global politics.

I wish it was otherwise!
Vitali being compared to Schmeling.
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:59 PM   #13
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Default Re: The heavyweight champion as a political tool, history repeats itself!

Hopefully the Russians will settle for a gentlemanly dual between Vitali and Valuev
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Old 03-03-2014, 10:01 PM   #14
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Default Re: The heavyweight champion as a political tool, history repeats itself!

trouble is brewing and I am not so sure where the chips will fall. I have seen much in my life and war destroys and damages, this could turn into WW3, a negative turn of events and it could happen.
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Old 03-03-2014, 10:03 PM   #15
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Default Re: The heavyweight champion as a political tool, history repeats itself!

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Hopefully the Russians will settle for a gentlemanly dual between Vitali and Valuev

that would be the best violent solution of the lot
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