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Old 05-25-2012, 08:21 AM   #46
The Mongoose
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Default Re: Could Marciano have fought at 175?

Maybe with modern dehyrdation methods, Joe Louis could have been a 175 lb too. Look at Tarver, he's the same size as Louis and walked around over 200 lbs. But really what's the point?

Mariciano, Louis, Holyfield..they proved themselves to be successful heavyweights. That is what they are.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:21 AM   #47
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Default Re: Could Marciano have fought at 175?

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Originally Posted by Rico Spadafora View Post
If he could have lord help whoever he was fighting he would have probably killed someone at that weight if he was comfortable. It would have been savage.
how about we skip the charade of "making weight" and just have all those SMW and LH that blow up in weight 10+ pounds for fight-time and have them face-off against Marciano. Now that would be something to watch.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:29 AM   #48
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Default Re: Could Marciano have fought at 175?

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Maybe with modern dehyrdation methods, Joe Louis could have been a 175 lb too. Look at Tarver, he's the same size as Louis and walked around over 200 lbs. But really what's the point?

Mariciano, Louis, Holyfield..they proved themselves to be successful heavyweights. That is what they are.
Maybe real earlier in his career but even then...not so sure. As he reached his prime weight, that would be a lot of weight to cut even for water. Not everyone's body can deplete that much without negative affect. I would usually stop at 10+ pounds even though some have gone over that.

Tarver isn't as thick as Louis.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:39 AM   #49
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Default Re: Could Marciano have fought at 175?

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Maybe real earlier in his career but even then...not so sure. As he reached his prime weight, that would be a lot of weight to cut even for water. Not everyone's body can deplete that much without negative affect. I would usually stop at 10+ pounds even though some have gone over that.

Tarver isn't as thick as Louis.
I would same the same for the idea of a 160 lb Maricano. Kind of my point with Louis analogy.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:20 AM   #50
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Default Re: Could Marciano have fought at 175?

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I would same the same for the idea of a 160 lb Maricano. Kind of my point with Louis analogy.

Ah.

160 pound Marciano was funny and to much.

I can see 10 pounds even though some have gone higher. But it really depends on the person. I'm not sure how much Marciano could lose. I would be very cautious if he were my fighter.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:32 AM   #51
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Default Re: Could Marciano have fought at 175?

No way in hell.

He'd be a cruiser today. Maybe the best in history given enough rounds.

Over 12 I can see holy beating him on points.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:47 AM   #52
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Default Re: Could Marciano have fought at 175?

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Ah.

160 pound Marciano was funny and to much.

I can see 10 pounds even though some have gone higher. But it really depends on the person. I'm not sure how much Marciano could lose. I would be very cautious if he were my fighter.
Another thing is up until the 60s, fighters had much smaller thighs. Even modern MWs and LHWs had huge thighs in contrast to heavies of the past while other measurements are roughly consistent. I don't think the guys of the past were so small framed so much as they just didn't carry as much muscle mass, especially in the legs.

If Marciano carried the same extra bulk in legs as the average fighter today, could easily see him comfortable at 210. Could he fight below 175..probably. But he would be emaciated compared to the well fed and muscular LHWS of today. These guys are making 175 with huge legs and other measurements.

Someone like Hopkins though much much smaller in the upper body has the same thigh measurements of Maricano while making 175 and even 160. Meanwhile Tarver at CW(last measurement I know of) had something like 29 inch thighs! At a similiar height and wingspan, a cut Joe Louis was making this same weight with only 20 inch thighs. While Tarver may be the same size as Joe Louis...he's not the really the same size of Joe Louis if you know what I mean.

Something to think about.Modern fighters are just built differently, much more bulk in the legs. If we are placing an older fighter in these times, that should probably be considered.

Last edited by The Mongoose; 05-25-2012 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 05-25-2012, 10:10 AM   #53
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Default Re: Could Marciano have fought at 175?

When Marciano retired in April 1956 he weighed appox. 220 lbs. He trained himself down to 189lbs.He worked like nobody before or since to get into shape...he was comfortable at that weight...
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Old 05-25-2012, 10:26 AM   #54
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Default Re: Could Marciano have fought at 175?

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Another thing is up until the 60s, fighters had much smaller thighs. Even modern MWs and LHWs had huge thighs in contrast to heavies of the past while other measurements are roughly consistent.
Great observation. I discovered that a few years ago as well. That is where a lot of the extra bulk has come from.
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Old 05-25-2012, 10:34 AM   #55
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Default Re: Could Marciano have fought at 175?

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Great observation. I discovered that a few years ago as well. That is where a lot of the extra bulk has come from.
Cool, someone else noticed this. Its not just isolated either, its pretty consistent in all weight classes past 35-40 years or so.

If a modern fighter like Tarver only had the 20 inch thighs of Louis and most other classic fighters of similar dimension, I doubt he would be fighting at the 175+-200 range so easily. 29.5 inch thighs on a 197 lb fighter is ALOT of bulk.
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:05 AM   #56
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Default Re: Could Marciano have fought at 175?

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Easily. He fought on several occasions less than 181, so your fact isn't accurate. He fought as low as 178 lbs on more than one occasion and these were in the late 1940s. It is a myth that he walked around at 200+ as some people claim. In fact, I reported here an AP story that had him weighing 193 pounds months in between fights late in his career (1955). I also reported here a New York Times story reporting that during training he tried to gain weight to get over 185 lbs for the first Walcott fight! So, yeah, light heavyweight wouldn't have been a problem. Today, he would have to fight at light heavyweight - if he wanted to be successful (not guaranteed, though).
Today, he would be Heavyweight Champion of the World. He was great. This whole bigger is better and big muscles are better is horseshit and always has been.
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:20 AM   #57
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Default Re: Could Marciano have fought at 175?

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Today, he would be Heavyweight Champion of the World. He was great. This whole bigger is better and big muscles are better is horseshit and always has been.
bigger is better in d h2h sense , not necessarily in d p4p sense , put Rocco with some1 like McCline/Grant/Whitaker and he gets easily hammered in2 d canvas . He wouldn't have even been able 2 reach their heads with his short stature and reach , only their bodies , but they would have been able 2 reach him 1st , more often and often harder . Just d weight behind these men's punches and d leverage of their punches stemming from their wingspan , would b 2 hard 4 Rocco 2 endure , or does Wilfredo gomez KO Nigel Benn ?
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:29 AM   #58
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Default Re: Could Marciano have fought at 175?

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bigger is better in d h2h sense , not necessarily in d p4p sense , put Rocco with some1 like McCline/Grant/Whitaker and he gets easily hammered in2 d canvas . He wouldn't have even been able 2 reach their heads with his short stature and reach , only their bodies , but they would have been able 2 reach him 1st , more often and often harder . Just d weight behind these men's punches and d leverage of their punches stemming from their wingspan , would b 2 hard 4 Rocco 2 endure , or does Wilfredo gomez KO Nigel Benn ?
Be careful ... when you talk Marciano it is sacred ground for many .. the laws of physics that apply to any other fighter get over ruled as he is the only man in history that never got hurt, never got tired and had the will all other greats lacked ...
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Old 05-25-2012, 11:35 AM   #59
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Default Re: Could Marciano have fought at 175?

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Be careful ... when you talk Marciano it is sacred ground for many .. the laws of physics that apply to any other fighter get over ruled as he is the only man in history that never got hurt, never got tired and had the will all other greats lacked ...
Not only when u talk Marchegiano , it's better that i won't even start mentioning other examples .
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:13 PM   #60
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Default Re: Could Marciano have fought at 175?

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And how is this thread criticism ?

Ummm...that post I made was 3 years ago, I don't even remember saying that
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