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Old 08-25-2007, 05:09 AM   #1
Diomedes
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Default Infighting against heavier opponents

I'm getting frustrated. One of the problems with my gym is that there's really only a core of about 4 of us that are serious, turn up to training every time, etc. There are a few others who come now and then. Of this bunch, there are two who are larger than me - I'm about 83kg, 6'1", and one of them is taller and 87kg - he doesnt show up consistently - and another guy is 96kg, very strong and taller than me. Everyone else is around 70kg and shorter than me.

Other than sparring the shorter, lighter guys, where I have too much of an advantage, the only really decent sparring I can get is versus the 96kg guy. The problem is, the extra 13 or so kg (tons of muscle, lower bodyfat % than me) means that basically his punches push me around. He's mobile, he can use his superior reach well, but when I get in close I find myself unable to really unleash because I'm getting pushed off balance by flurries of punches. I can turtle up effectively, nothing much gets through, but if he starts unleashing those hooks I dont feel like I'm in a position to counter because I dont have a... stable platform I guess.

I'm frustrated by the fact that my trainer doesnt focus on infighting at all, he wants all of us to be boxers, to be outside fighters, but when I'm coming up against a guy much larger, taller with better reach, it seems like I'd be playing his game. I want to pressure him, because I've seen him susceptible to it and I've done it myself, but he's improving and basically nullifying my tendency towards an aggressive fighting style.

Any advice?
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Old 08-25-2007, 02:53 PM   #2
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Default Re: Infighting against heavier opponents

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diomedes
I'm getting frustrated. One of the problems with my gym is that there's really only a core of about 4 of us that are serious, turn up to training every time, etc. There are a few others who come now and then. Of this bunch, there are two who are larger than me - I'm about 83kg, 6'1", and one of them is taller and 87kg - he doesnt show up consistently - and another guy is 96kg, very strong and taller than me. Everyone else is around 70kg and shorter than me.

Other than sparring the shorter, lighter guys, where I have too much of an advantage, the only really decent sparring I can get is versus the 96kg guy. The problem is, the extra 13 or so kg (tons of muscle, lower bodyfat % than me) means that basically his punches push me around. He's mobile, he can use his superior reach well, but when I get in close I find myself unable to really unleash because I'm getting pushed off balance by flurries of punches. I can turtle up effectively, nothing much gets through, but if he starts unleashing those hooks I dont feel like I'm in a position to counter because I dont have a... stable platform I guess.

I'm frustrated by the fact that my trainer doesnt focus on infighting at all, he wants all of us to be boxers, to be outside fighters, but when I'm coming up against a guy much larger, taller with better reach, it seems like I'd be playing his game. I want to pressure him, because I've seen him susceptible to it and I've done it myself, but he's improving and basically nullifying my tendency towards an aggressive fighting style.

Any advice?

I have picked up my intensity while training recently. My trainer does not push me to be a boxer nor infighter, he wants me to find what I am comfortable with which has proved to be a mix of both. Decent infighting with decent boxing. Im focusing on outfighting at the moment, then soon Ill start focusing on infighting. I have been pounded and beat down but I will never cede or give up. You should do the same even if you feel like shit. Find what is comfortable for you, key word what you like to do. I like to hit from outside, move around, then when the guy comes in close hit him with what I got THEN move FAST.
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Old 08-25-2007, 03:09 PM   #3
Butch Coolidge
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Default Re: Infighting against heavier opponents

A good big man always beats a good little man but I have some advice for you;

focus on constantly changing angles and keep the distance your distance. Think Chris Byrd.

Try leaning a shoulder into his chest and use both your legs to kind scoot him where you want him.

Learn how to turn him, you kind of have to get a hand on his tricep area and push his arm to your right as you step out to your left, this will give you a very good angle to attack from as soon as you let go.

Basically, don't try to manhandle him. You make it about balance and leverage not strength vs strength. Fight your fight.

I would even go so far as to place my right hand on the back of his head or my right forearm on the side of his neck and push him or pull him one direction while stepping to an advantagous position.
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Old 08-25-2007, 05:17 PM   #4
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Default Re: Infighting against heavier opponents

If your opponent has big beefy muscle-man arms, just keep punching him in the arms. You'll need to be a bit quicker than they are on your feet.
Angle around him (or her) and just keep pumping a jab or a one- two into their shoulder, occasionally slide one in to the face or chest. If you are both orthadox, this means step to your own right, anfd punch them in thier left arm. After you step over to the right, he/she will have to adjust, that's when you hit him (or her)
After about 2 or three rounds of this, they're guard will start to drop.
Then when you come in, use your left (jabbing hand) to nullify their (now weakend) left. Paw it down, jab at it some more, immediately slide in an overhand right into thier face. You might want to fight with your guard high, but extended out a bit to intercept any incoming fire. If its available finish up with a good left hook.
Rinse and repeat.

This isn't pretty but it should do the trick. The additional advatage is that since you are essentially fighing on the outside, he/she won't be able to lean on you.

The other option is to do your best Iron Mike impression and come in bobbing and weaving, pound him to the body, then finish off at the head. Unless you are Iron Mike, this will take LOTS of energy, and you WILL get hit alot.
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Old 08-25-2007, 08:39 PM   #5
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Default Re: Infighting against heavier opponents

You want to use their weight and strength against them. The best example I can think of now is Calzaghe v Lacy.
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Old 08-25-2007, 09:31 PM   #6
Diomedes
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Default Re: Infighting against heavier opponents

Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch Coolidge
A good big man always beats a good little man but I have some advice for you;

focus on constantly changing angles and keep the distance your distance. Think Chris Byrd.

Try leaning a shoulder into his chest and use both your legs to kind scoot him where you want him.

Learn how to turn him, you kind of have to get a hand on his tricep area and push his arm to your right as you step out to your left, this will give you a very good angle to attack from as soon as you let go.

Basically, don't try to manhandle him. You make it about balance and leverage not strength vs strength. Fight your fight.

I would even go so far as to place my right hand on the back of his head or my right forearm on the side of his neck and push him or pull him one direction while stepping to an advantagous position.
That last pointer sounds reminisent of the Muay Thai clinch. I'll think about these tips next training session, thanks.
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Old 08-25-2007, 09:36 PM   #7
Diomedes
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Default Re: Infighting against heavier opponents

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer Love Hewitt
If your opponent has big beefy muscle-man arms, just keep punching him in the arms. You'll need to be a bit quicker than they are on your feet.
Angle around him (or her) and just keep pumping a jab or a one- two into their shoulder, occasionally slide one in to the face or chest. If you are both orthadox, this means step to your own right, anfd punch them in thier left arm. After you step over to the right, he/she will have to adjust, that's when you hit him (or her)
After about 2 or three rounds of this, they're guard will start to drop.
Then when you come in, use your left (jabbing hand) to nullify their (now weakend) left. Paw it down, jab at it some more, immediately slide in an overhand right into thier face. You might want to fight with your guard high, but extended out a bit to intercept any incoming fire. If its available finish up with a good left hook.
Rinse and repeat.

This isn't pretty but it should do the trick. The additional advatage is that since you are essentially fighing on the outside, he/she won't be able to lean on you.
Thanks, more ideas help.

Quote:
The other option is to do your best Iron Mike impression and come in bobbing and weaving, pound him to the body, then finish off at the head. Unless you are Iron Mike, this will take LOTS of energy, and you WILL get hit alot.
I like that idea, but one of the problems is that there's little emphasis on this style of fighting in my training. Lots of bobbing and weaving and a Tyson style of fighting does appeal, but it's not encouraged. I think when I first began training I utilized this more, but it's almost been drummed out of me over time. I think I need to head back in that direction.
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Old 08-26-2007, 08:07 AM   #8
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Default Re: Infighting against heavier opponents

Pulling a Tyson against a much heavier and classy opponent could be suicide.
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Old 08-26-2007, 12:01 PM   #9
Butch Coolidge
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Default Re: Infighting against heavier opponents

There's another move that we used to use called the shuck that might help you but you have to have the right difference in height for it to work. Basically you just kind wiggle or squirm your way into position so that you can ram top of your shoulder into his arm pit. You use your whole body in the bump to get him off balance. Remember the bump comes from your whole body not just your upper body, it's almost like your hopping into him.
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Old 08-27-2007, 03:57 AM   #10
Diomedes
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Default Re: Infighting against heavier opponents

Didnt get a chance to try anything new out, my nose took a light tap and started gushing blood. I'm booking an appointment for cauterization tomorrow - 5 out of the last 6 sessions I've had to cut sparring short due to nose bleeds, not even from hard hits, ****ing sick of it.

Last edited by Maccall; 05-19-2006 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 01-03-2009, 04:32 PM   #11
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Default Re: Infighting against heavier opponents

try to back him up then lean your head on his chest with a high guard and let your punches go
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