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Old 08-25-2007, 10:00 AM   #1
TIGEREDGE
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Default Who Thought Duran Hagler Was Close

I thought it was a close fight. HAGLER won no doubt but duran give him one of his hardest fights. shows how great duran was to be a major force at 5 weights
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Old 08-25-2007, 10:12 AM   #2
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Default Re: Who Thought Duran Hagler Was Close

Yes, it was a close fight, but IMO Hagler could have been a bit more aggressive...
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Old 08-25-2007, 10:22 AM   #3
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Default Re: Who Thought Duran Hagler Was Close

9-5-1 Hagler.
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Old 08-25-2007, 10:44 AM   #4
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Default Re: Who Thought Duran Hagler Was Close

Hagler looked way too passive. He should've KO'd Duran in the mid to late rounds, IMO.
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Old 08-25-2007, 10:52 AM   #5
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Default Re: Who Thought Duran Hagler Was Close

Tho i thought Hagler was mighty disappointing i think he was ahead by more than the cards read. I know it actually.
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Old 08-25-2007, 11:41 AM   #6
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Default Re: Who Thought Duran Hagler Was Close

Hagler showed Duran far too much respect. I think Hagler was intimidated by Duran's reputation, and the magnitude of the event probably made Hagler slightly nervous. I'm sure Hagler looked at Duran's performance against Moore and said to himself "This guy is for real". Everyone expected Duran's aggressive style to play right into Hagler's hands. It was a superfight between two massive stars which was a mismatch before the first bell rang. Nobody gave Duran a chance. He never just fooled Hagler with his cute defensive tactics, but all the journalists and fans as well.

Duran was a master of mind games. Palamino was warned before he met Duran at a press conference that things could get very nasty. Palamino was ready for it all to kick off. When they both met face to face, Duran walked over to Palamino, shook his hand, then asked for his autograph.
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Old 08-25-2007, 01:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: Who Thought Duran Hagler Was Close

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbi
Duran was a master of mind games. Palamino was warned before he met Duran at a press conference that things could get very nasty. Palamino was ready for it all to kick off. When they both met face to face, Duran walked over to Palamino, shook his hand, then asked for his autograph.
Recalling Arcel's comment that Duran would rather fight than eat, he seemed more interested in having a good time against Palomino. Carlos was now a former champion, and it was generally known that he wanted to be retired by the time he turned 30. He had his degree, already performed with Tony Danza in Taxi, and was looking forward to the next phase of his life. My chief memory of that bout is actually encapsulated in a news photo of Duran at the weigh-in, drink cup in hand, with a broad relaxed smile on his face as Palomino was on the scale. He had to know that Palomino lost the hunger which once made him a champion.

Regarding Hagler/Duran, I felt Marv might have been too respectful of Roberto's reputation. My view was that El Cholo was winning after 12 rounds, then Hagler swept the championship rounds to take the decision. Essentially, it seemed to me that Marv ultimately prevailed with his youth, strength and conditioning. However, Duran produced a magnificent display of boxing over the first 12 rounds, and demonstrated that he didn't need to be able to advance in order to win. I also feel that Duran performed better over the first 12 rounds against Hagler than SRL did, despite Marv being vastly superior in repelling Duran's challenge to how dreadful his showing against Ray was.
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Old 08-25-2007, 02:01 PM   #8
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Default Re: Who Thought Duran Hagler Was Close

Hagler elected to box the master and outboxed him. It proved more in terms of his legacy than had he elected to wade in slugging. It showed that Hagler was an extremely skilled boxer who could cleanly outpoint another extemely skilled boxer. Whereas Leonard could not outbox Duran, Hagler could, showing the world who was the better boxer.
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Old 08-25-2007, 02:03 PM   #9
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Default Re: Who Thought Duran Hagler Was Close

It was one of the most exaggerated "close" fights ever.

Hagler won 10-4-1.

I really wanted to give Duran more rounds, because I like him more than Hagler, but I couldn't do it.
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Old 08-25-2007, 02:04 PM   #10
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Default Re: Who Thought Duran Hagler Was Close

Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Lethal
Hagler elected to box the master and outboxed him. It proved more in terms of his legacy than had he elected to wade in slugging. It showed that Hagler was an extremely skilled boxer who could cleanly outpoint another extemely skilled boxer. Whereas Leonard could not outbox Duran, Hagler could, showing the world who was the better boxer.
Everyone knew (or should have known) that Hagler was a good boxer before that.

Hagler was more of a boxer-puncher than slugger for most of his career.
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Old 08-25-2007, 02:32 PM   #11
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Default Re: Who Thought Duran Hagler Was Close

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duodenum
Recalling Arcel's comment that Duran would rather fight than eat, he seemed more interested in having a good time against Palomino. Carlos was now a former champion, and it was generally known that he wanted to be retired by the time he turned 30. He had his degree, already performed with Tony Danza in Taxi, and was looking forward to the next phase of his life. My chief memory of that bout is actually encapsulated in a news photo of Duran at the weigh-in, drink cup in hand, with a broad relaxed smile on his face as Palomino was on the scale. He had to know that Palomino lost the hunger which once made him a champion.

Regarding Hagler/Duran, I felt Marv might have been too respectful of Roberto's reputation. My view was that El Cholo was winning after 12 rounds, then Hagler swept the championship rounds to take the decision. Essentially, it seemed to me that Marv ultimately prevailed with his youth, strength and conditioning. However, Duran produced a magnificent display of boxing over the first 12 rounds, and demonstrated that he didn't need to be able to advance in order to win. I also feel that Duran performed better over the first 12 rounds against Hagler than SRL did, despite Marv being vastly superior in repelling Duran's challenge to how dreadful his showing against Ray was.
If you have the fight close or wide in favour of Hagler, one thing everyone knows who has posted on this thread so far. Duran should have put combinations together more often. He was very focused on his defense, but his work was more behind the jab with the odd right hand mixed in as well.

Duran simply wasn't busy enough with power shots. I'm not saying he should have fought Hagler toe-to-toe, but landing 3-4 punch combinations at mid-distance then reassessing his next move from the outside would have been perfect.

Duran's intelligence was evident throughout the fight. Hagler done him a favour by standing off. But If Hagler came out smoking early and bossed the fight their is a good chance Duran would have not seen 8 rounds.

But you could also say Duran let Hagler off the leash as well. He was just doing enough to hang in there competitively with Hagler. Just a bit more authoritive work, more straight right hands combined with combinations, and Hagler would have kissed his title "goodbye".

Last edited by Robbi; 08-25-2007 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 08-25-2007, 02:46 PM   #12
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Default Re: Who Thought Duran Hagler Was Close

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erratic Behavior
Everyone knew (or should have known) that Hagler was a good boxer before that.

Hagler was more of a boxer-puncher than slugger for most of his career.
But the perception was that he was more a puncher than a boxer. If that had not been true you wouldn't have all these assessments saying that Hagler gave Duran too much respect. The expectation was that Hagler would take Duran apart with aggression and power. Instead, he put on a clinic. People don't see that because of their perception of Hagler.
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Old 08-25-2007, 03:10 PM   #13
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Default Re: Who Thought Duran Hagler Was Close

I've grown weary of hearing how Hagler was intimated by the event, by Duran, or what have you. This fight is a clear illustration of the general tendency to apply criticisms to the past based on knowledge that was unknown at the time. Here's what Hagler did not know in November of 1983:

1. That Duran would be KOd by Hearns the next June.
2. That he himself would steamroller Hearns in April of 85.

Here's what Hagler did know in November 1983:

1. The Duran had fought aggressively in his previous two wins against Cuevas and Moore -and destroyed them both. Both men tried to punch with him and paid dearly. Duran's "backalley baroque" makes that costly.

2. Duran had been dropped twice before and never KO'd in 81 fights.

3. Duran was very inspired and in great condition.

--Fact is, Hagler won the fight and towards the end of it, had an eye that was beginning to look like Davey Moore's. Duran eats one-eyed fighters. If Hagler had gone straight at the smaller man, this damage would have occured earlier in the fight and Duran would aim right for that eye like he was doing. It was a heavy risk and as it turns out, an unnecessary one for Hagler to go straight at him.

Normally, of course it is sensible to take the fight to the smaller man. But Duran was so much more than a smaller man.
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Old 08-25-2007, 03:42 PM   #14
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Default Re: Who Thought Duran Hagler Was Close

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehands89
I've grown weary of hearing how Hagler was intimated by the event, by Duran, or what have you. This fight is a clear illustration of the general tendency to apply criticisms to the past based on knowledge that was unknown at the time. Here's what Hagler did not know in November of 1983:

1. That Duran would be KOd by Hearns the next June.
2. That he himself would steamroller Hearns in April of 85.

Here's what Hagler did know in November 1983:

1. The Duran had fought aggressively in his previous two wins against Cuevas and Moore -and destroyed them both. Both men tried to punch with him and paid dearly. Duran's "backalley baroque" makes that costly.

2. Duran had been dropped twice before and never KO'd in 81 fights.

3. Duran was very inspired and in great condition.

--Fact is, Hagler won the fight and towards the end of it, had an eye that was beginning to look like Davey Moore's. Duran eats one-eyed fighters. If Hagler had gone straight at the smaller man, this damage would have occured earlier in the fight and Duran would aim right for that eye like he was doing. It was a heavy risk and as it turns out, an unnecessary one for Hagler to go straight at him.

Normally, of course it is sensible to take the fight to the smaller man. But Duran was so much more than a smaller man.
great statement
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Old 08-25-2007, 03:43 PM   #15
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Default Re: Who Thought Duran Hagler Was Close

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehands89
I've grown weary of hearing how Hagler was intimated by the event, by Duran, or what have you. This fight is a clear illustration of the general tendency to apply criticisms to the past based on knowledge that was unknown at the time. Here's what Hagler did not know in November of 1983:

1. That Duran would be KOd by Hearns the next June.
2. That he himself would steamroller Hearns in April of 85.

Here's what Hagler did know in November 1983:

1. The Duran had fought aggressively in his previous two wins against Cuevas and Moore -and destroyed them both. Both men tried to punch with him and paid dearly. Duran's "backalley baroque" makes that costly.

2. Duran had been dropped twice before and never KO'd in 81 fights.

3. Duran was very inspired and in great condition.

--Fact is, Hagler won the fight and towards the end of it, had an eye that was beginning to look like Davey Moore's. Duran eats one-eyed fighters. If Hagler had gone straight at the smaller man, this damage would have occured earlier in the fight and Duran would aim right for that eye like he was doing. It was a heavy risk and as it turns out, an unnecessary one for Hagler to go straight at him.

Normally, of course it is sensible to take the fight to the smaller man. But Duran was so much more than a smaller man.
Solid points. But Hagler also knew Duran's last victim was a relatively inexperienced pro who was exposed on the night. Full credit to Duran though as he had some poor performances beforehand, Laing and Benitez. Moore was also the odds makers favourite before a first bell rang.

Duran v Cuevas. I have to disagree with you that Duran fought aggressively, as he did the opposite apart from when he went in for the kill during the 4th round. His showing against Cuevas would be one of the ones in his career I'd tag "boxing display". He boxed superbly, circling behind the jab, and softening up Cuevas before siezing the right moment to strike. He kept his distance and stood off. It was a very patient display.

Not too sure when you last seen the fight, but with fresh viewing of it I'm sure you'd change your view on how Duran fought that night.
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