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Old 08-27-2007, 07:00 PM   #31
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Default Re: Couture CC

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Originally Posted by scurlaruntings
Erm because Achilles its true! Liddell isnt known for his boxing 101 his known for his heavy hands.Do your self a favor and watch Rampage Liddell 2 again.Watch the body shot he throws on Rampage.Which guy do you know with good boxing skills trys to throw a left to the body when his at least a foot from his opponent whilst at the same time leaves his right hand low? And if you want to keep distance any decent boxer knows you stick and move and keep your opponent on the end of the jab not some looping probing left hand.Bottom line is his boxing skills suck most here are aware of that.
I agree with you that his boxing technique leaves a lot to desire. He is very effective though and you cannot only attribute that to his heavy hands. He has great timing and pretty good speed. He also sees well where he's throwing the punch, therefore throwing many right on the button.
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Old 08-27-2007, 07:16 PM   #32
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Default Re: Couture CC

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I agree with you that his boxing technique leaves a lot to desire. He is very effective though and you cannot only attribute that to his heavy hands. He has great timing and pretty good speed. He also sees well where he's throwing the punch, therefore throwing many right on the button.
Agreed that isnt in dsipute.His timing and precision is very good infact.Its a shame he hasnt backed this up with a few fundamentals as he would be throughly unstoppable if he did.
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Old 08-27-2007, 07:25 PM   #33
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Default Re: Couture CC

I'll pick Couture to win against CC. Before i wouldn't have thought this is possible but man Couture has been on a streak and looked impressive agianst Gonzaga straight took his heart away. However Cro Cop definately has a chance the man has weakness' but when he is on his strengths often ofset those weakness'. It is still an intriguing matchup but who knows this time Couture prolly won't be the underdog and it might work against him than if Cro Cop beat Gonzaga and was heavily favoured going into a fight with Randy. No one will underestimate Couture again he has proven to many times he is one resiliant cat.

By the way Cro Cop is superior stand up to liddell. Chuck has heavy hands no doubt but overall stand up Cro Cop has him beat. Mirko is lethal with his kicks and his hands people sometimes forget he has a very good str8 left hand.
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Old 08-27-2007, 07:28 PM   #34
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Yup thats straight left broke Sapps orbital bone and that was with 10oz gloves.
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Old 08-27-2007, 07:37 PM   #35
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Default Re: Couture CC

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Originally Posted by scurlaruntings
Yup thats straight left broke Sapps orbital bone and that was with 10oz gloves.
Sapp had this look on his face like he was crying. He dropped Wanderlei with a nice str8 left coming in before too. When Cro Cop is on he mixes between devestating kicks and accurate punches.
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Old 08-27-2007, 08:43 PM   #36
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Default Re: Couture CC

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Originally Posted by scurlaruntings
Agreed that isnt in dsipute.His timing and precision is very good infact.Its a shame he hasnt backed this up with a few fundamentals as he would be throughly unstoppable if he did.

The stupidest mistake boxing fans make. Assumption that what you see in the cage is his "boxing" skills. WTF do you want to see? I dont get it... you want him to roll the punches, bob and weave? He has GREAT sense of distance. His stance gives the illusion to your opponents that the can jab u hard, next thing you know theres a loopy hook comming at your face and nothing you can do about it. I'd say thats good.

There's only so much you can take from boxing to the cage. As it stands right now, different fighters adapted their "boxing" to MMA differently from one another. I'd say Liddell did a pretty good job of adapating into MMA standup.
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Old 08-28-2007, 07:46 AM   #37
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Default Re: Couture CC

Quote:
Originally Posted by scurlaruntings
Erm because Achilles its true! Liddell isnt known for his boxing 101 his known for his heavy hands.Do your self a favor and watch Rampage Liddell 2 again.Watch the body shot he throws on Rampage.Which guy do you know with good boxing skills trys to throw a left to the body when his at least a foot from his opponent whilst at the same time leaves his right hand low? And if you want to keep distance any decent boxer knows you stick and move and keep your opponent on the end of the jab not some looping probing left hand.Bottom line is his boxing skills suck most here are aware of that.
It isn't true!

Liddell uses boxing how he has to use it. His only real flaw is his shots aren't tight but that is done on purpose to maintain range.

Liddells main defence is his offence and his feet. He shifts his head a bit too but he hasn't got as good a defence as Jackson. Jackson has a top defence.

Chuck looped his hook because he wants to keep distance. Popping the jab and scoring does little in MMA. Liddell wants to close the show and beat a guy up.

Liddell hasn't got a good defence but the rest of his game is solid.

It isn't debatable.

It baffles me how someone can watch the skill Chuck displayed v Couture and just call him heavy handed.

Chuck was not just a good boxer, watch his overall striking v Belfort, its great.
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Old 08-28-2007, 11:38 AM   #38
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Default Re: Couture CC

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Originally Posted by ufoalf
The stupidest mistake boxing fans make. Assumption that what you see in the cage is his "boxing" skills. WTF do you want to see? I dont get it... you want him to roll the punches, bob and weave? He has GREAT sense of distance. His stance gives the illusion to your opponents that the can jab u hard, next thing you know theres a loopy hook comming at your face and nothing you can do about it. I'd say thats good.

There's only so much you can take from boxing to the cage. As it stands right now, different fighters adapted their "boxing" to MMA differently from one another. I'd say Liddell did a pretty good job of adapating into MMA standup.
That wasnt the question in dispute so i fail to see what your point was.Achilles asserted that Liddells boxing skills are better than CC`s. They clearly are not.

Now when talking about "boxing skills" be it in a ring in a cage in card board box or a postal box thats what there going to be likened to.No ones talking about how he adapted them to a cage or why they need to be slightly adapted to MMA.Boxing skills are just that BOXING SKILLS.

Jens Pulver BJJ and Gomi ALL have better boxing skills than Liddell.
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Old 08-28-2007, 12:17 PM   #39
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Default Re: Couture CC

I agree with Scurla on this one. Liddell is a very effective striker, but his boxing skills leave a lot to be desired. He doesn't even really use boxing skills, which isn't to say that he isn't dangerous and effective... it is just that boxing isn't the backbone of his operation.

I also agree with those of you talking about Chuck having a great sense of distance (normally), and using his foot movement very well. I agree with that. and he is very good at setting up his shots for the most part too. However, there are plenty of fighters who use actual boxing type skills in MMA in a much better technical fashion.
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Old 08-28-2007, 01:36 PM   #40
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Default Re: Couture CC

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Originally Posted by scurlaruntings
That wasnt the question in dispute so i fail to see what your point was.Achilles asserted that Liddells boxing skills are better than CC`s. They clearly are not.

Now when talking about "boxing skills" be it in a ring in a cage in card board box or a postal box thats what there going to be likened to.No ones talking about how he adapted them to a cage or why they need to be slightly adapted to MMA.Boxing skills are just that BOXING SKILLS.

Jens Pulver BJJ and Gomi ALL have better boxing skills than Liddell.
Ok, than how can you judge Liddells boxing from MMA match? It's like judging Kos' wrestling ability from MMA. Just cause he got taken down by GSP twice doesn't mean GSP is a better wrestler. I messed the part where he said Liddell has better stand up than CC. I dunno about that, its arguable.
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Old 08-28-2007, 02:17 PM   #41
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Default Re: Couture CC

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Originally Posted by scurlaruntings
That wasnt the question in dispute so i fail to see what your point was.Achilles asserted that Liddells boxing skills are better than CC`s. They clearly are not.

Now when talking about "boxing skills" be it in a ring in a cage in card board box or a postal box thats what there going to be likened to.No ones talking about how he adapted them to a cage or why they need to be slightly adapted to MMA.Boxing skills are just that BOXING SKILLS.

Jens Pulver BJJ and Gomi ALL have better boxing skills than Liddell.
That's how it is.
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Old 08-28-2007, 02:33 PM   #42
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Default Re: Couture CC

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Originally Posted by ufoalf
Ok, than how can you judge Liddells boxing from MMA match? It's like judging Kos' wrestling ability from MMA. Just cause he got taken down by GSP twice doesn't mean GSP is a better wrestler. I messed the part where he said Liddell has better stand up than CC. I dunno about that, its arguable.
Iv never mentioned Koschecks wrestling ability so again i fail to see your point.Im not looking for comparisons here im simply stating the obvious.

Koscheck is a decorated wrestler.GSP is not.In a pure wrestling match im pretty sure 9 times out of 10 Koscheck would own GSP.BUT this is MMA not wrestling.

And yes we can judge Liddells skills from an MMA match as his striking plays a massive part in his execution.His KO record speaks for itself.
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Old 08-28-2007, 02:49 PM   #43
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Default Re: Couture CC

You guys are wrong. What are you saying is wrong with Chucks boxing skills?

Footwork? No! - He has great footwork. Great skill and technique with it. Probably the best defensive footwork in all of MMA. It is irrefutable that Chucks technique is better than Cros here.

Punches? No! - The shots are looped but he wants to keep his distance. His left is what he calls his 'set up punch', so he is shooting it out to set shots up and range find. He has all the text book punches. Only flaw is they are slightly looped but this isn't really a flaw in MMA.

Defence? Kinda! - His defence is average. Its based on footwork mainly, and shifting his head. He doesn't arm block for shit. This is why people think he is shit, because he doesn't pin his arms to his dome.

Intelligence? No! His sense of range and timing when it comes to punches is one of, if not the best, in the game.

What is your argument? I challenge it.

So other than a text book boxing defence, like Rampage has got, I see no argument. Jackson boxing defence while being able to avoid take downs and take fighters down is simply fantastic.
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Old 08-28-2007, 03:23 PM   #44
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Default Re: Couture CC

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Originally Posted by achillesthegreat
You guys are wrong. What are you saying is wrong with Chucks boxing skills?

Footwork? No! - He has great footwork. Great skill and technique with it. Probably the best defensive footwork in all of MMA. It is irrefutable that Chucks technique is better than Cros here.

Punches? No! - The shots are looped but he wants to keep his distance. His left is what he calls his 'set up punch', so he is shooting it out to set shots up and range find. He has all the text book punches. Only flaw is they are slightly looped but this isn't really a flaw in MMA.

Defence? Kinda! - His defence is average. Its based on footwork mainly, and shifting his head. He doesn't arm block for shit. This is why people think he is shit, because he doesn't pin his arms to his dome.

Intelligence? No! His sense of range and timing when it comes to punches is one of, if not the best, in the game.

What is your argument? I challenge it.

So other than a text book boxing defence, like Rampage has got, I see no argument. Jackson boxing defence while being able to avoid take downs and take fighters down is simply fantastic.
- He throws to the body without setting the punch up
- No classic head movement
- Looping punches aren't technically sound. They might work but that's not the point here.
- He leaves himself open for counters(that's not always a problem cause he can take a punch)

He punches well in MMA and has developped a style that has worked well for him. But against Rampage he met someone who was able to take advantage of Liddels lack of fundamentals. Throwing a body punch as a lead and going backwards in a straight line with your hands at the hip equals a lack of boxing technique. I say he could improve in that area. Again, the fact that he made his style work for him is that he has natural talents like speed accuracy and crazy power, says not everything about his technique.
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Old 08-28-2007, 08:33 PM   #45
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Default Re: Couture CC

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Originally Posted by scurlaruntings
Iv never mentioned Koschecks wrestling ability so again i fail to see your point.Im not looking for comparisons here im simply stating the obvious.

Koscheck is a decorated wrestler.GSP is not.In a pure wrestling match im pretty sure 9 times out of 10 Koscheck would own GSP.BUT this is MMA not wrestling.


And yes we can judge Liddells skills from an MMA match as his striking plays a massive part in his execution.His KO record speaks for itself.
Did you even read what i said? This is MMA not boxing.
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