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Old 08-29-2007, 01:50 PM   #31
Luigi1985
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Default Re: Frazier-Marciano

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Originally Posted by Jack
Frazier was shot by the first Foreman fight. Out of shape, badly damamged by the first Ali fight and other tough bouts throughout his career.

Whenever we get a "prime for prime" matchup involving Frazier, people mention the Foreman fight, which goes directly against the idea of "prime".

The Frazier of the late '60's was a much better defensive fighter than the one who fought Foreman. Quicker reflexes, better chin, better blocking, and better movement.

Frazier wasn´t at his best against Foreman, but he was far away from shot. Lame excuse...
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Old 08-29-2007, 02:00 PM   #32
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Default Re: Frazier-Marciano

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Originally Posted by Assassin
Marciano would have gotten brutalized in similar fashion from Foreman.

I wouldn´t be that death-sure when I think at the Lyle- fight...
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Old 08-29-2007, 02:18 PM   #33
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Default Re: Frazier-Marciano

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Originally Posted by Luigi1985
Frazier wasn´t at his best against Foreman, but he was far away from shot. Lame excuse...
*******s.

Look at Frazier's medical condition after the Ali fight. Not nessecarily just his injuries in that fight, but his back, eyes and whatever else. He was a wreck.

Watch Frazier struggle with Ron Stander and tell me he wasn't shot.

I actually think he imroved after the Foreman and Stander fights, but on those very nights, I would genuinly consider him done.

I suppose "shot" is subjective though.
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Old 08-29-2007, 02:36 PM   #34
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Default Re: Frazier-Marciano

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Originally Posted by Luigi1985
I wouldn´t be that death-sure when I think at the Lyle- fight...
Marciano fought nothing like Lyle, and they were built dissimilarly also. Big George from the Foreman-Frazier fights would mow over Marciano. George from the Lyle fight, fresh from a long time-off, probably would have been troubled by Marciano, I agree.
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Old 08-29-2007, 02:38 PM   #35
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Default Re: Frazier-Marciano

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Originally Posted by Quick Cash
Marciano fought nothing like Lyle, and they were built dissimilarly also. Big George from the Foreman-Frazier fights would mow over Marciano. George from the Lyle fight, fresh from a long time-off, probably would have been troubled by Marciano, I agree.


Walcott had a harder one-punch for example, and he couldn´t KO Marciano, although he nailed him with multiple good and hard shots...
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Old 08-29-2007, 02:44 PM   #36
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Default Re: Frazier-Marciano

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Originally Posted by Luigi1985
Walcott had a harder one-punch for example, and he couldn´t KO Marciano, although he nailed him with multiple good and hard shots...
I totally disagree. Walcott was a hard and wiley puncher, but the emphasis should be on wiley. No one, excepting maybe Earnie Shavers, approaches the power of George Foreman. It was his one thing. No one should take that away from him.

I say, if Joe Walcott could floor Rocky Marciano with one shot, Foreman could probably knock him out for the count with a series of uppercuts.
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Old 08-29-2007, 03:11 PM   #37
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Default Re: Frazier-Marciano

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Originally Posted by Quick Cash
I totally disagree. Walcott was a hard and wiley puncher, but the emphasis should be on wiley. No one, excepting maybe Earnie Shavers, approaches the power of George Foreman. It was his one thing. No one should take that away from him.

I say, if Joe Walcott could floor Rocky Marciano with one shot, Foreman could probably knock him out for the count with a series of uppercuts.

You wrote that Marciano never fought a fighter like Lyle, and I answered with Walcott as an example, now you´re coming with Foreman...
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Old 08-29-2007, 03:35 PM   #38
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Default Re: Frazier-Marciano

Marciano is stronger, more powerful, had a better chin and relied on both hands to get some KO's.

Frazier punches with more volume, was faster, had the better left hook and was a bit harder to hit.

I guess Marciano takes it by a hair.
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Old 08-29-2007, 04:31 PM   #39
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Default Re: Frazier-Marciano

Or so we assume, and base on a past it Fraizer?? Was Louis tailor made for Marciano?? Or Dempsey Tunney?? Or even Tyson Lewis?
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Old 08-29-2007, 08:15 PM   #40
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Default Re: Frazier-Marciano

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Originally Posted by Luigi1985
You wrote that Marciano never fought a fighter like Lyle, and I answered with Walcott as an example, now you´re coming with Foreman...
You misunderstood. I said Marciano fought nothing like Lyle. You were the one who brought Lyle into the discussion in the first place. I fail to see how he's a relevant example as George was clearly under-prepared for that fight. I wasn't the one who mentioned George either, by the way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dempsey1238
Or so we assume, and base on a past it Fraizer?? Was Louis tailor made for Marciano?? Or Dempsey Tunney?? Or even Tyson Lewis?
It's true Frazier was past it when he fought Foreman, but he didn't do himself any favors by fighting low like he did, and you know Frazier always fought low. His whole style was built on fighting low.

When you're past peak, typically reaction slows gradually, but Frazier, even with the full use of his cognitive abilities, would fight low prime or no. It's a styles thing: Foreman beats Frazier.
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Old 08-29-2007, 10:28 PM   #41
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Default Re: Frazier-Marciano

Rocky would win by middle to late round stoppage because joe was always vulnerable to a right hand and Rockys was one of the best
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Old 08-31-2007, 01:37 AM   #42
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Default Re: Frazier-Marciano

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Originally Posted by Mendoza
Did Frazier have a problem with his eye? I agree with what you said. The interesting part about this match is, Frazier would far and away be the best puncher Marciano faced.
I got to disagree on punchers he faced. Layne was not great, but good, and hit hard. Charles was not big, but hit hard and sharper, and Archie Moore could bang. Vingo was supposedly one of hardest hitters coming up when he faced Marciano, although due to bad match ups his record was not as ko heavy.
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Old 08-31-2007, 01:41 AM   #43
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Default Re: Frazier-Marciano

Walcott was able to take clean pot shots at a blinded Marciano in middle rounds, and marciano never wavered, buckled, or stopped going at Walcott. Oe punch in 11th would have ko'd almost anyone, Marciano took it and did not blink.

Frazier was tough as Marciano, and it would be war, but Marciano was just better head to head or overall. No knock on Frazier. It's tough matching up champs, cause it sometimes sounds like one guy is being put down.
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Old 09-02-2007, 06:00 AM   #44
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Default Re: Frazier-Marciano

Frazier by TKO in the 7th.
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Old 09-02-2007, 10:08 AM   #45
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Frazier by TKO in the 7th.

Wow, that's harsh. Frazier would be offended.

Frazier decapitates this slow bleeder within 3.
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