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Old 09-02-2007, 03:38 PM   #46
dav8d777
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by KTFO
Yes. Against fighters he stood a chance somehow.

Marciano's biggest weapon was called endurance.
He tried to dismantle his opponents successively.
Nevertheless his opponents were handpicked and Douglas of Tokyo would be his worst choice.
I think this is the main point. Douglas had a rep for fading. Marciano trained possibly harder than any champion. That's part of the reason he knocked out Walcott so late in the game.

I sometimes suspect too that that is why Marciano retired. His own brutal training regimen took a lot out of him and his family time.
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Old 09-02-2007, 03:42 PM   #47
dav8d777
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

[quote=KTFO]As ignorant as can be.

I'm not sure that saying Marciano retired undefeated and that's all the math that needs to be done is ignorant.

Rocky is as Rocky does.

The real truth is that Ali got his tail whipped a number of times when he was young enough to still be good. Norton and Frazier did it.

Holyfield is the most respected champ who ever lost two "trilogies" (Lewis and Bowe).

Forty-nine consecutive victories is a lot better than a million "what might have beens".
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Old 09-02-2007, 03:44 PM   #48
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by KTFO
Yes. Against fighters he stood a chance somehow.

Marciano's biggest weapon was called endurance.
He tried to dismantle his opponents successively.
Nevertheless his opponents were handpicked and Douglas of Tokyo would be his worst choice.
Hate to bust your bubble, but outside of ****ell, NON of the Rock's title fights were hand pick. Moore, Charles, LarSarzra all earn there title shots.
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Old 09-02-2007, 04:09 PM   #49
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by Hitman
Bouglas by ko in 7!

5'10 vs 6'4
190 vs 230
Do the math
using that logic mcbride should have no trouble disposing of the gentleman in your avatar in about 5
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Old 09-02-2007, 08:08 PM   #50
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by KTFO
As ignorant as can be.
Not ingnorant, Just a fact.





Holyfield is a different league and shouldn't be mentioned in a sentence together with Marciano. Holyfield would school Marciano.
Holyfield would never beat Marciano, He does not posses the speed & boxing ability to stay away from Marciano for fifteen rounds. Holyfield likes to eventually trade blows & that's where Marciano would get him. Smoother & better boxers tried to Box & stay away from Marciano's hammer blows & failed, Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, Jersey Joe Walcott. All technally better boxers than Holyfield & faster on thier feet.
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Old 09-03-2007, 08:53 AM   #51
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by janitor
Rocky Marciano was verry beatable on paper but you cannot deny that he had a talent for snatching victory out of the jaws of defeat.

If Mike Tyson is the ultimate under achiever then Rocky Marciano is the opposite. The guy who did more with the tools he had than he should ever have been able to do.

Marciano had nights when the boxing gods decided his number was up but he still managed to pull it round. We can speculate all night whether Tyson could have beaten Joe Walcott or Ezzard Charles but if you put him at the worst moment of those fights he dose not manage to claw it back.
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Old 09-03-2007, 09:00 AM   #52
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by KTFO
As ignorant as can be.





Holyfield is a different league and shouldn't be mentioned in a sentence together with Marciano. Holyfield would school Marciano.

the only one who needs a schooling is you, you dont know Jack shit about boxing or whats inside of a MAN, douglas was a DOG, 99% of the time and a quitter, yet you love him. The class would end fast for him in the ring with Marciano much like it did when Buster faced a fighter with heart, Tyson had excellent skills but was also a quitter when the going got tough
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Old 09-03-2007, 09:26 AM   #53
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

I dont know why people compare weak hearted people to Dogs. Dogs are one of the most brave around. We had police and fire dogs. Dogs that are WILLING to take a bullet for there masters ete. I think we need a new saying in regards to this.

Marciano had the heart of a Lion and a Dog lol.
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Old 09-03-2007, 12:01 PM   #54
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

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I'm not sure that saying Marciano retired undefeated and that's all the math that needs to be done is ignorant.

Marciano retired undefeated because he knew that it was time to do so. Otherwise he would've been KOed in near future. He handpicked his opponents and knew who he's able to beat. Moore was a natural lightheavy and had his best performances in lightheavy division. Louis was past prime and shot.
So what did Marciano achieve? He defended his title only 6 times and retired when Sonny Liston was an upcoming prospect. He knew Liston would destroy him that's all.

Now let's do the mentioned math. Douglas was 4 inches bigger than Tyson. That hight advantage helped him to win the fight. Nobody knows how he'd performed if his size were equal to Tyson's. Facing Marciano he would even have a 5 inch advantage,plus 45lbs more on his ribs. Douglas had enough power to floor Tyson. Now tell me what those 45lbs would do to Marciano.
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Old 09-03-2007, 01:03 PM   #55
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTFO
Marciano retired undefeated because he knew that it was time to do so. Otherwise he would've been KOed in near future.
So who was going to do it then?

There was nobody around capable of posing a serious challenge when Marciano retired. If he had stayed on he would have ended up rematching Moore or fighting Tommy Huricane Jackson.

Quote:
He handpicked his opponents and knew who he's able to beat. Moore was a natural lightheavy and had his best performances in lightheavy division.
Moore had cleaned out the heavyweight division. Marciano had no choice but to fight him.

Quote:
Louis was past prime and shot.
He still only lost to champions.

Quote:
So what did Marciano achieve?
Something that no champion before or since has been able to repeat. He retired undefeated and untied.

Quote:
He defended his title only 6 times and retired when Sonny Liston was an upcoming prospect. He knew Liston would destroy him that's all.
Liston was still fighting four rounders when Marciano retired. It is unlikley that Marciano had even heard of him.
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Old 09-03-2007, 03:39 PM   #56
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

And lets rember in regards to Liston, by the time Marciano retire, Liston would also spend 2 or so years in prison. It was not as if Liston was tearing though the ranks at the time. As Jantior said, Liston was still fighting 4 rounders at the time thoguh.
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Old 09-03-2007, 07:40 PM   #57
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

There was no one left for Marciano to defend against, Valdez was beaten by Moore and Dropped and dominated by Satterfield, there were no money fights and Marciano was losing his love for the game,gym, because of Al Weill, his manager and the guy ran 12-15 miles a day hit a 300lb heavy bag for hours, did swim punching for hours, sparred and threw boulders, I think after 6 defenses vs 5 # 1 contenders, he deserved a rest and was smart enough to get out while still in his prime, Marciano had another 4-5 fights left, Liston had not yet revenged his loss and broken jaw to 180 lb Marty Marshall which was about the same time Marciano retired and Liston was dropped again in the rematch by a 181lb Marshall, no one even considered Sonny anywhere near a threat for the title and did not get a title shot untill 9/25/62 and Marciano retired 9/21/55, 7 (SEVEN) years before, so anyone who says he ducked Liston does not know JACKSHIT about boxing
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Old 09-03-2007, 07:59 PM   #58
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dempsey1238
I dont know why people compare weak hearted people to Dogs. Dogs are one of the most brave around. We had police and fire dogs. Dogs that are WILLING to take a bullet for there masters ete. I think we need a new saying in regards to this.

Marciano had the heart of a Lion and a Dog lol.
Just a common expression, I love dogs, I think that term is to express a dogs reverence to man
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Old 09-04-2007, 06:40 AM   #59
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

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So who was going to do it then?

Sonny Liston.


Quote:
Moore had cleaned out the heavyweight division. Marciano had no choice but to fight him.

Beating Nino Valdes doesn't mean you cleaned out the heavy div.


Quote:
He still only lost to champions.

Louis wasn't the same fighter anymore since his weak chin was exposed by Walcott (among others). Marciano retired Louis.


Quote:
Something that no champion before or since has been able to repeat. He retired undefeated and untied.

Beating handpicked lightheavies or shot fighters,ducking real threats. That's no achievement.


Quote:
Liston was still fighting four rounders when Marciano retired. It is unlikley that Marciano had even heard of him.

Liston of 1958 would've annihilated Marciano. Marciano retired because he heard of Liston's success.
Marciano retired in 1955. Liston fought 8-rounders in 1955.

Last edited by KTFO; 09-04-2007 at 07:07 AM.
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Old 09-04-2007, 08:06 AM   #60
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Default Re: Buster Douglas vs. Rocky Marciano

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTFO
Sonny Liston.
You mean the kid who is still fighting four roundes in between spells in prison?

If Marciano had heard of him which I doubt he would not have been seen as a credible oponent for any of the Ring top 10 yet.

Quote:
Beating Nino Valdes doesn't mean you cleaned out the heavy div.
Look at the ring magazine rankings for the presceeding years and then look at the people Moore beat over this period. It is not just about Valdez.

Quote:
Louis wasn't the same fighter anymore since his weak chin was exposed by Walcott (among others). Marciano retired Louis.
Of course he wasn't the same fighter but even at the end of his career he was only beaten by lineal champions.

Beating a shot version of Louis is a bit like beating a shot version of god.

Quote:
Beating handpicked lightheavies or shot fighters,ducking real threats. That's no achievement.
It is funny how these handpicked oponents were always the No1 contender when Marciano fought them.

It must have been a verry happy coincidence for him that the fighters he chose to hand pick were always ranked in the No1 spot.

Quote:
Liston of 1958 would've annihilated Marciano. Marciano retired because he heard of Liston's success.
Liston was nobody when Marciano retired.

Quote:
Marciano retired in 1955. Liston fought 8-rounders in 1955.
He would need a number of 10 or 12 rounders under his belt before he could even be a credible title challenger. He would also need wins over a few ranked contenders.

Bottom line is that the only way you would ever get Marciano and Liston in the same ring is either-

A. Marciano feasting on a green Liston for which he would rightly have been criticised.

or

B. Liston beating up on a shot Marciano on an ill fated comeback.
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