Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-08-2009, 04:07 PM   #46
SuzieQ49
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Boston
Posts: 13,488
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jack Dempsey-John Lester Johnson, July 1916

Kid Norfolk
Harry Wills
Sam Langford
Joe Jeanette
George Godfrey
Jack Johnson


What do the following fighters have in common? All were either highly rated fighters who dempsey never fought, or fighters that challenged dempsey to fight in a professional fight that jack turned them down. All were coincidently Black.
SuzieQ49 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 05-08-2009, 04:10 PM   #47
UpWithEvil
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 340
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jack Dempsey-John Lester Johnson, July 1916

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
Kid Norfolk
Harry Wills
Sam Langford
Joe Jeanette
George Godfrey
Jack Johnson


What do the following fighters have in common?
None of them have ever eaten in my kitchen?
UpWithEvil is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2009, 04:17 PM   #48
UpWithEvil
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 340
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jack Dempsey-John Lester Johnson, July 1916

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
That article shows Dempsey basically ducked a 39 year old black man. In the first place, Dempsey should have accepted the negro's challenge if he had an ounce of sporting blood in his make up.
See, this saves you the time of forming your own opinions when you can just transcribe the opinions of others!

The article *clearly* shows that the organizers of the charity event tried to screw Dempsey over and Dempsey's manager did the appropriate thing and told them to get bent.

No offense kiddo, but if you think Kearns was in the wrong here, you should never apply for a manager's license in boxing. LOL at the idea of any manager worth a squirt of piss letting his prized heavyweight fight anybody for free with 30 seconds of preparation!
UpWithEvil is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2009, 04:23 PM   #49
Seamus
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 12,302
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jack Dempsey-John Lester Johnson, July 1916

Quote:
Originally Posted by UpWithEvil View Post
the worst sort of historical revisionism imaginable.
seems to be all the rage on this board.

ergo my increasing disinterest...
Seamus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2009, 04:35 PM   #50
Bokaj
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,204
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jack Dempsey-John Lester Johnson, July 1916

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
I think that is a rather rose tinted view of the American Civil War.
You just might be right.
Bokaj is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2009, 04:38 PM   #51
Bokaj
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,204
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jack Dempsey-John Lester Johnson, July 1916

UpWithEvil, you can't seriosuly mean that Dempsey didn't use the colour line to avoid dangerous contenders? You can go on all you want about "PC" and whatnot, but this is a pretty obvious fact,
Bokaj is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2009, 06:00 PM   #52
UpWithEvil
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 340
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jack Dempsey-John Lester Johnson, July 1916

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokaj View Post
UpWithEvil, you can't seriosuly mean that Dempsey didn't use the colour line to avoid dangerous contenders? You can go on all you want about "PC" and whatnot, but this is a pretty obvious fact,
I don't think Mr. Dempsey cared who stood across from the ring from him. His primary interest was in getting paid, preferably in stacks of $100 bills, delivered by the truckload. Tex Rickard, the man who made Dempsey the wealthiest athlete in the world, openly disparaged the idea of a black man fighting for the heavyweight title. If you want to find a scapegoat, you should probably start with him.
UpWithEvil is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2009, 07:15 PM   #53
My2Sense
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,971
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jack Dempsey-John Lester Johnson, July 1916

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
That article shows Dempsey basically ducked a 39 year old black man.
No it doesn't, it just offers one writer's personal opinion that Dempsey "ducked" him, or at least should've fought him anyway regardless of the injustice done to him. The article clearly states "There is no alibi for anybody involved in this disgraceful episode," and then goes on point blame at the managers and others behind this whole charade, although the article then gets cut off there.

The anger over Dempsey pulling out was only limited to those people in the arena, who were deprived of the expected opportunity to see him fight. There was no real backlash against him outside of that for his decision.
My2Sense is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2009, 07:24 PM   #54
My2Sense
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,971
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jack Dempsey-John Lester Johnson, July 1916

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
seems to be all the rage on this board.

ergo my increasing disinterest...
Agreed, it is getting to be absurd here, and increasingly inaccurate as well.

In the "zale vs hearns" thread, someone responds by saying "This fight couldn't happen, Zale didn't fight black fighters," which is not only silly but completely inaccurate.

Elsewhere, there's people saying Pacquiao's resume suffers because not enough of his big wins come against fighters who happen to be black. That's just childish and plain retarded IMO.
My2Sense is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2009, 08:18 PM   #55
GPater11093
Barry
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 19,025
vCash: 836
Default Re: Jack Dempsey-John Lester Johnson, July 1916

Quote:
Originally Posted by UpWithEvil View Post
Another poorly-known fact was that Sam McVey, a Dempsey sparring partner for the 1920 defense against Billy Miske, was actually Irish. Obviously you should be able to conclude that just based on his name, but some so-called "historians" simply overlook the obvious in favor of their own biases.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
"Aye, 'tis true laddie, a son of the Emerald Isle I be, right and surely!"

this is random but Manny Pacquaio seriously claims to be part scottish. i wondered where he got that bravery from
GPater11093 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2009, 08:31 PM   #56
dmt
Hardest hitting hw ever
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,175
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jack Dempsey-John Lester Johnson, July 1916

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
Kid Norfolk
Harry Wills
Sam Langford
Joe Jeanette
George Godfrey
Jack Johnson


What do the following fighters have in common? All were either highly rated fighters who dempsey never fought, or fighters that challenged dempsey to fight in a professional fight that jack turned them down. All were coincidently Black.
its amazing that u can accuse him of ducking johnson, i mean ur bias is obvious.
dmt is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2009, 07:31 AM   #57
he grant
Historian/Film Maker
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,642
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jack Dempsey-John Lester Johnson, July 1916

Chris, I just caught your post and truly thank you for an amazing piece of research and history that I have never read or seen about Dempsey .... great stuff !!!
Talented posters like this are why I come to these sites ...

A few thoughts ... the article tells a lot between the lines putting the bias reporters opinions aside ...boxing is a business and Dempseywas Kearns investment ... in everything I read about Kearns and Dempsey, Kearn was always considered about Dempsey being fed a "ringer" at the wrong moment.

To me it is clear Dempsey was on the rise, Jeannette was not and Joe was trying to take advantage of an opportunity Jack was not prepared for ... Kerans as his manager had every right to say f-ck off ... why take the risk ... in addition, notice how the article stressed that Dempsey did not look the least bit concerned upon seeing Jeannette ..
he grant is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2009, 08:33 AM   #58
amhlilhaus
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 882
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jack Dempsey-John Lester Johnson, July 1916

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
That article shows Dempsey basically ducked a 39 year old black man. In the first place, Dempsey should have accepted the negro's challenge if he had an ounce of sporting blood in his make up.
you've made your point over and over on this board. I used to be unconvinced but now it's simply a fact:

no white man has ever beat a black man cleanly, throughout history nor will they ever in the future
amhlilhaus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2009, 11:07 AM   #59
he grant
Historian/Film Maker
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,642
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jack Dempsey-John Lester Johnson, July 1916

Not the point. Both races lost by the color line in boxing ... blacks lost the opportunity to try for the top and be compensated for it ... Whites suffered far less, receiving only question marks from the handful of historians like us ...
he grant is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 08:36 AM   #60
ChrisPontius
March 8th, 1971
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Holland
Posts: 9,643
vCash: 238
Default Re: Jack Dempsey-John Lester Johnson, July 1916

Quote:
Originally Posted by UpWithEvil View Post
"Some more quotes from the article"

All opinions. You want facts?

1) Dempsey and Kearns agreed to box a free exhibition for charity against Joe Bonds.
2) Dempsey had two paying fights within two weeks following the exhibition.
3) The organizers of the charity event changed Dempsey's opponent without informing either Dempsey or his manager.
4) Dempsey did not learn of the change until both he and Jeanette were in the ring.
How about this for a fact:

1) Dempsey got a painful beating from a black man in 1916, John Lester Johnson.
2) Dempsey never fought a black man after that.
3) Dempsey did the longest during and most blatant case of ducking the #1 contender in Harry Wills in the entire history of the sport, ALL weight classes.
4) That contender happens to be black.


Quote:
Originally Posted by UpWithEvil
For anyone to claim that this tawdry affair in any way reflects badly on Misters Dempsey and Kearns is the worst sort of historical revisionism imaginable. Dempsey clearly had no qualms about giving Jeanette a drubbing, but any manger who allowed such blatant chicanery to pass would be guilty of nothing less than clear malpractice against their fighter.
Yeah, well, it's always easy to hide behind your promoter/manager. He doesn't give a damn about losing face or being called a coward. Ducking the best opposition while hiding behind and blaming your promotor who picks the easy opponents that you never wanted, poor Jack. The exact same thing happened with Bowe and Newman. If Bowe really wanted Lewis he would've got him. Same with Patterson and Liston.
ChrisPontius is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:15 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013