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Old 08-31-2007, 07:59 PM   #16
brownpimp88
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Default Re: Whitaker vs. Camacho?

This is true, i have heard stories that hector got the better of it.

Sweet Pea also says that pernell whitaker would beat meldrick taylor head to head just cuz whitaker claims that meldrick's style wouldnt bother him based on thier sparring sessions. LoL, i dont think pernell would ever say that meldrick got the better of it, he obviously wants to protect his own ego.

I think there is a reason as to why Meldrick was considered the better fighter from 87-90. You can argue that meldrick beat buddy mcgirt in a more convincing fashion than pernell did and he was schooling chavez much worse than pernell was before the controversial stoppage. I would honestly give hector and meldrick 50/50 shots at beating pernell.
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Old 08-31-2007, 08:12 PM   #17
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Default Re: Whitaker vs. Camacho?

As much as I hate to agree with RedRooster...

I read that Camacho was a 'bit naughty' with Sweet Pea in sparing considering one was a seasoned pro and the other an amatuer and it got stopped because of that...That aside I can't see an '83 Whittaker getting the better of a '83 Camacho when he was 130 and on top of his game.
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Old 09-01-2007, 06:16 AM   #18
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Default Re: Whitaker vs. Camacho?

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrooster
Sure he could. I know I have seen probably as much as Hector during his prime and I never saw Hector have the problem you just described.

When he boxed Davis, a performance he gets little credit for, he was just as brilliant at the end of the fight as at the begginning and that's how most of his fights went.

His problems began when he couldn't carry his weight and went flatfooted later in his career.
Fighting Howard Davis was like going to a waltz... you could do it all night. He sure couldn't do it all night with Rosario putting that two-fisted pressure on his ass.
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Old 09-01-2007, 06:39 AM   #19
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Default Re: Whitaker vs. Camacho?

Prime Camacho was before the Rosario fight and at 130. He wasn't the same fighter after Rosario IMO.
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Old 09-01-2007, 07:21 AM   #20
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Default Re: Whitaker vs. Camacho?

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Originally Posted by GazOC
Prime Camacho was before the Rosario fight and at 130. He wasn't the same fighter after Rosario IMO.
He very definitely wasn't the same fighter post Rosario, but the man was just 24 years old and had never copped a beating. He hadn't even faced a front line fighter excepting Ramirez, whom he outboxed in excellent fashion. How could he be past his prime? Because his opponent level moved up a class maybe? The only truly notable name on his record was Ramirez to this point, and he was made to order for Camacho's awesome speed and movement. He looked unbelievable against lesser opponents for sure, but against real class he struggled. I'll grant he has plenty of superb performances against the second tier.

We could say Camacho was past his peak post Rosario, but where does this leave him? Seriously hurt two times and he is never mentally as good again.

So prime/peak/whatever Camacho lasted but 18 fights? With only one real tough one? I can't give him a cop out on this one. At the end of the day, when opponents got better and things stopped being quite so easy he came right back to the pack. I'll also grant him this, against light hitters or slow come forward fighters the guy was sensational.

Truth be told he is a full level below the class of Whitaker tho he'd have his monets head to head.
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Old 09-01-2007, 07:40 AM   #21
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Default Re: Whitaker vs. Camacho?

I think his opponents got bigger, after Rosario he realized Lightweights could hurt him and adjusted his style. I don't think he felt he could be hurt at 130.

Prime for prime Whittaker would take Camacho but in 1983 when this sparing session is supposed to have taken place, then no.
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Old 09-01-2007, 07:48 AM   #22
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Default Re: Whitaker vs. Camacho?

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Originally Posted by GazOC
I think his opponents got bigger, after Rosario he realized Lightweights could hurt him and adjusted his style. I don't think he felt he could be hurt at 130.
Well he never really got hit at 130, certainly not by a top shelf opponent. Put him at 130 over 15 rounds vs Chavez, Arguello, early Rosario etc and i think he'd sure find out he could get hurt.

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Prime for prime Whittaker would take Camacho but in 1983 when this sparing session is supposed to have taken place, then no.
Yeah mate, i'm certainly laying my life on the line either way. You might be right, not sure.
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Old 09-01-2007, 07:49 AM   #23
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Default Re: Whitaker vs. Camacho?

I agree, its certainly not a sure thing. But if I had to bet......
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Old 09-01-2007, 10:12 AM   #24
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Default Re: Whitaker vs. Camacho?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boxbible
Fighting Howard Davis was like going to a waltz... you could do it all night. He sure couldn't do it all night with Rosario putting that two-fisted pressure on his ass.
Whatever his faults, Rosario was the biggest hitter, the bomber of the division.

Pernell doesn't carry nearly the same firepower. Pernell was a boxer. Most of his matches went the distance. Most people I seen him with went the distance.

Likewise with Davis, a boxer who had recently held Meldrick to a draw so no one can knock Davis as a choker or that he wasn't competitive with big names in the division. The only reason he lost the Rosario fight was that he got dropped the last ten seconds of the fight. Even so, I still had him well ahead.

but no one could be competitive with Hector with his style. He set the pace and easily stayed in command from start to finish.
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Old 09-01-2007, 10:45 AM   #25
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Default Re: Whitaker vs. Camacho?

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrooster

Likewise with Davis, a boxer who had recently held Meldrick to a draw so no one can knock Davis as a choker or that he wasn't competitive with big names in the division.
Out of interest how many fights had Meldrick Taylor had going into the Howard Davis fight?
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Old 09-01-2007, 12:14 PM   #26
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Default Re: Whitaker vs. Camacho?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
Out of interest how many fights had Meldrick Taylor had going into the Howard Davis fight?
i don't know but Davis really threw him off his game like no one else. He wasn't able to land his combinations as usual but Howard was easy game for Hector. That's because Hector was head and shoulders over every other jr lightweight, lightweight, jr welter around.
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Old 09-01-2007, 12:26 PM   #27
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Default Re: Whitaker vs. Camacho?

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrooster
i don't know but Davis really threw him off his game like no one else. He wasn't able to land his combinations as usual but Howard was easy game for Hector. That's because Hector was head and shoulders over every other jr lightweight, lightweight, jr welter around.
You tell us Davis was still performing vs the big names like Taylor yet you of all people don't know how many fights Taylor had had going in vs the experienced vet that was Howard Davis?

Taylor had a mere 12 fights under his belt, please spare me the "big name" melodramatics. His inexperience was the only thing an aged Davis had going for him in this one. Davis had lost to some mug called Joe Manley in his fight right before Taylor!!!!
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Old 09-01-2007, 12:40 PM   #28
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Default Re: Whitaker vs. Camacho?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
You tell us Davis was still performing vs the big names like Taylor yet you of all people don't know how many fights Taylor had had going in vs the experienced vet that was Howard Davis?

Taylor had a mere 12 fights under his belt, please spare me the "big name" melodramatics. His inexperience was the only thing an aged Davis had going for him in this one. Davis had lost to some mug called Joe Manley in his fight right before Taylor!!!!
Olympians because of their extensive amateur background sometimes get put in early with tough opp. and do quite well.

I remember the time Leon Spinks went in with the legend Ali and took his belt with only 7 fights- in a 15 round fight no less.

I remember the time Holyfield took the belt from a very tough Dwight Qawi with only 12 fights-in a demanding 15 round fight no less.

Taylor v. Davis was something like what, 10 rounds?

Let's not forget Davey Moore winning a title with eight contests or how he trounced the great Ayub kalule, knocking him out in similar fashion to the great Leonard (I'm being disingenuous when I describe leonard as great)

It happens John. You just haven't been around enough - I can't blame you for that. If you don't know, you don't know.

Do I know? Yes, I believe I do.
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Old 09-01-2007, 07:36 PM   #29
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Default Re: Whitaker vs. Camacho?

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrooster
Olympians because of their extensive amateur background sometimes get put in early with tough opp. and do quite well.
Sometimes they progress fast, sometimes they don't. This goes for any fighter, not just "Olympians". Extensive amateur exposure is a good springboard but not always neccessary my little Red one.

Quote:
I remember the time Leon Spinks went in with the legend Ali and took his belt with only 7 fights- in a 15 round fight no less.
Would you call hime the rule or the exception? Trouble is Meldrick at the time couldn't beat a well over the hill Davis. Facts are Howard was comfortably past it, tho he still obviously fought quite well on the night. I'm a fan of Howard and found it a shame he couldn't nab his title at some point.

Quote:
I remember the time Holyfield took the belt from a very tough Dwight Qawi with only 12 fights-in a demanding 15 round fight no less.
Yes, i remember dozens apon dozens of times they didn't succeed to. If we look hard enough we can find exceptions to most anything, and that's exactly what your examples are, exceptions.

Quote:
Let's not forget Davey Moore winning a title with eight contests or how he trounced the great Ayub kalule
Davey Moore is a good example of a guy who was rushed that little bit (hindsights easy of course), but mainly because he was unlucky enough to come across Duran on fire and a ref and team that didn't give two fukks about his health. Can't blame them for taking on a Duran who was thought to be very beatable for Davey. The loss did irrepairable damage.
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Old 09-01-2007, 07:39 PM   #30
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Default Re: Whitaker vs. Camacho?

I remember the Davis-Taylor fight being advertised as 'Crossroads', the funny thing being they both stalled!!
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