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Old 08-31-2007, 08:20 AM   #31
red cobra
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Default Re: OK... So Who was the Greatest

Sugar Ray Robinson, pound for pound of course.
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Old 08-31-2007, 08:32 AM   #32
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Default Re: OK... So Who was the Greatest

Quote:
Originally Posted by TIGEREDGE
what about holmes. he reigned longer than ali and marciano. went undeafeted longer than louis. has the second strongest resume in heavyweight history (secomnd to ali)
No he doesn't.
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Old 08-31-2007, 08:38 AM   #33
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Can you count to three? Place those fighters offered in sequential order regarding your perception of their overall greatness. For example:

1. Ali
2. Marciano
3. Louis


Thank you for this useless post. And still a poll would be easier to display the outcome.
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Old 08-31-2007, 08:42 AM   #34
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Default Re: OK... So Who was the Greatest

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Holmes
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Old 08-31-2007, 08:48 AM   #35
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Default Re: OK... So Who was the Greatest

from the list ali easily, best resume among the list and beat the who's who in his era. but you guys are selling tyson short, he'd have loius and marciano for dinner at the same night. ali would probably beat him, but would be given hell in the process.
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Old 08-31-2007, 06:31 PM   #36
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Default Re: OK... So Who was the Greatest

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Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
No he doesn't.
who does? joe louis never fought stronger opposition than him. only ali
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Old 08-31-2007, 06:34 PM   #37
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Default Re: OK... So Who was the Greatest

Holmes had more breaks than Marciano in this regard. Over half of Holmes title defenses were against jourymen and prospects.
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Old 08-31-2007, 06:46 PM   #38
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Default Re: OK... So Who was the Greatest

1. Louis
2. Ali
3. Marciano

Louis is on top because he is an all around fighter, he held on to that championship like forever. He's got the skills and power to win.
Ali come is at number two (I have him at 4 all time). I really feel that Ali is over hyped. He was definately great, but not as invincible as people like to portray him. Hell, if you actually watch an Ali fight, you'll see him struggle, get some questionable gifts and outright lose to fighters that others would have eaten for lunch. Oddly enough, I do think that Ali could beat Louis in a head to head match up... styles...
Marciano comes in last. I tend to think of Marciano as a lower tier great. He has a great punch, and will to win but never had the opportunity to test it against a real threat. Sure he has the zero, but that's mainly due to him retiring soon.
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Old 09-01-2007, 07:40 AM   #39
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Default Re: OK... So Who was the Greatest

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Originally Posted by TIGEREDGE
who does? joe louis never fought stronger opposition than him. only ali
Joe Louis did fight stronger opposition. Lennox Lewis also did. Marciano arguably. Joe Frazier did.

Holmes' best three names are Norton (very close fight, Norton went 2-2-1 up to retirement after Holmes ducked the rematch), Witherspoon (dead even fight, again Holmes ducked the rematch) and 19-8 Weaver, again Holmes duckd the rematch.
Holmes' resume misses about 7 significant fights of which at least a few should have been made. The same cannot be said of Louis, Marciano, Lewis and Frazier.
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Old 09-01-2007, 08:15 AM   #40
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Default Re: OK... So Who was the Greatest

from that 3.

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Marciano

Ali the greatest because he proved it by beating the greatest fighters. Liston, Frazier and Foreman were all great champions and Ali beat them. Wonder how Louis and Marciano would fair against those? I can never see Marciano beating Foreman and Louis would have it tough against any and i can see Liston beating him.
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Old 09-01-2007, 08:32 AM   #41
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Default Re: OK... So Who was the Greatest

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Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
Joe Louis did fight stronger opposition. Lennox Lewis also did. Marciano arguably. Joe Frazier did.

Holmes' best three names are Norton (very close fight, Norton went 2-2-1 up to retirement after Holmes ducked the rematch), Witherspoon (dead even fight, again Holmes ducked the rematch) and 19-8 Weaver, again Holmes duckd the rematch.
Holmes' resume misses about 7 significant fights of which at least a few should have been made. The same cannot be said of Louis, Marciano, Lewis and Frazier.
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Old 09-01-2007, 11:06 AM   #42
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Default Re: OK... So Who was the Greatest

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
Joe Louis did fight stronger opposition. Lennox Lewis also did. Marciano arguably. Joe Frazier did.

Holmes' best three names are Norton (very close fight, Norton went 2-2-1 up to retirement after Holmes ducked the rematch), Witherspoon (dead even fight, again Holmes ducked the rematch) and 19-8 Weaver, again Holmes duckd the rematch.
Holmes' resume misses about 7 significant fights of which at least a few should have been made. The same cannot be said of Louis, Marciano, Lewis and Frazier.
WHAT ABOUT SHAVERS, SMITH, WILLIAMS, COONEY, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. THEY WERE ALL HOT DANGEROUS CONTENDORS
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Old 09-01-2007, 11:08 AM   #43
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Default Re: OK... So Who was the Greatest

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Originally Posted by Bummy Davis
LENNOX LEWIS FOUGHT THE WEAKEST OPPOSITION OF ANY LONG REIGNING HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMP IN HISTORY

WHO DID HE FIGHT THAT WASN'T FINISHED OR A NEVER WAS
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Old 09-01-2007, 11:47 AM   #44
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Default Re: OK... So Who was the Greatest

Quote:
Originally Posted by TIGEREDGE
WHAT ABOUT SHAVERS, SMITH, WILLIAMS, COONEY, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. THEY WERE ALL HOT DANGEROUS CONTENDORS
They were good contenders with little experience. Cooney never went past 6 rounds, Smith had only one significant fight against Bruno in which he lost just about every round untill the KO, Carl Williams was good but his glass jaw limited his succes (he wouldn't get past the first round against Lewis, Tyson (as we saw), Louis, Marciano and Frazier), Shavers was a good contender but also rather mediocre outside of his power.

The guys Joe Louis fought had more losses, sure, but those losses came at the important gain of experience. Experience is a big factor and most of Louis' opponents had 40-50 fights under their belt.


I don't want to stab Holmes too much, but the bunch you mentioned are hardly more impressive than Quarry 2x, Ali 3x, Foreman 2x, Ellis, Bonavena or Walcott 2x, Charles 2x, Moore, old Louis, Layne... or Holyfield, Tua, Klitschko, Grant (aka black Cooney), Bruno, Morrison.... or Carnera, Schmeling, Uzcudun, M. Baer, B. Baer, Sharkey, Godoy, Conn, Walcott 2x, etc etc.
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Old 09-01-2007, 11:58 AM   #45
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Default Re: OK... So Who was the Greatest

Quote:
Originally Posted by TIGEREDGE
LENNOX LEWIS FOUGHT THE WEAKEST OPPOSITION OF ANY LONG REIGNING HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMP IN HISTORY

WHO DID HE FIGHT THAT WASN'T FINISHED OR A NEVER WAS
You could argue everyone Holmes fought in his prime was a "NEVER WAS". His best wins are probably Norton and Mercer.

Who else is there on his resume, who you would say were good fighters? I get the feeling if I list people like Tua, Klitschko etc., you will resort to saying they were "NEVER WAS" fighters, but Holmes has very few above them.

Just for the record, I think Lewis has a much better resume than Holmes. A guy like Vitali Klitschko was a better fighter than anyone Holmes faced. Even an old Holyfield was better than either Mercer or Norton or Shavers etc..
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