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Old 08-30-2007, 06:35 PM   #16
Stonehands89
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Never Really Beat Duran

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Originally Posted by Street Lethal
I think I understand what you are trying to say, Tigeredge. The first fight was a fight, the type of encounter we associate with exciting fights. I thought it was more one-sided than you did, but Leonard proved something by surviving Duran's vicious onslaught. Duran was a man possessed that night.

The second fight wasn't so much Leonard winning but Duran giving the fight away. If the Duran from Montreal had showed up, Leonard would be facing another night of living hell. As it was, the fight was fairly evenly contested for what it was: Duran several notches below his Montreal demonic mode and Leonard generally making an ass of himself (sorry, fanboys, but it's true).

The third fight was, honestly, the worst of them all. What a rip off! I already talked about this in the other thread, so I'm not going into it again. It will just piss me off to think about it anymore.
I see his point too, but I had too squint because all that emoting clouded the issue.

The record states that Duran lost to Leonard 2/3. It's his own damn fault. The record doesn't state that Duran was Duran for one of those fights.
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Old 08-30-2007, 06:49 PM   #17
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Never Really Beat Duran

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Originally Posted by Stonehands89
I see his point too, but I had too squint because all that emoting clouded the issue.

The record states that Duran lost to Leonard 2/3. It's his own damn fault. The record doesn't state that Duran was Duran for one of those fights.
RECORDS DON'T ALWAYS TELL THE STORY
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Old 08-30-2007, 07:26 PM   #18
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Never Really Beat Duran

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RECORDS DON'T ALWAYS TELL THE STORY
...did you read the last sentence in my post? See what losing control of your emotions do? It effects your capacity to reason. Calm down and craft something with thought behind it.
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Old 08-30-2007, 08:33 PM   #19
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Never Really Beat Duran

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There's a growing majority who aren't convinced he beat Hagler.
The history books need to be rewritten regading that one!
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Old 08-30-2007, 09:05 PM   #20
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Never Really Beat Duran

Which roberto duran loss isnt valid, i mean it seems like people love to make an excuse for every loss he has. His loss to benitez wasn't legit, his loss to hearns wasn't legit, now his losses to leonard arent legit either. To me, duran is just overrated, he looks great against all of those B level fighters, but when he faces the true ATGs, he gets schooled, its as simple as that.
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Old 08-30-2007, 09:07 PM   #21
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Never Really Beat Duran

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Which roberto duran loss isnt valid, i mean it seems like people love to make an excuse for every loss he has. His loss to benitez wasn't legit, his loss to hearns wasn't legit, now his losses to leonard arent legit either. To me, duran is just overrated, he looks great against all of those B level fighters, but when he faces the true ATGs, he gets schooled, its as simple as that.
Oh.... so now Duran isn't an ATG LW. If you think that's so you need another hobby pal!
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Old 08-30-2007, 09:12 PM   #22
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Never Really Beat Duran

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Oh.... so now Duran isn't an ATG LW. If you think that's so you need another hobby pal!
Hes an atg lw, but i dont think hes one of the 5 best fighters to ever live. He's 1-5 against ATGs, we criticize de la hoya for losing many of his big fights, duran only won 1 big fight, thats it!
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Old 08-30-2007, 09:21 PM   #23
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Never Really Beat Duran

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Originally Posted by TIGEREDGE
Ray tried to box in that fight, but got sucked in to a fight. He took a few rounds recovering from being shook by RD. the result could of beeen different if hedn't of got nailed

Wrong. Leonard never tried to box, and never got sucked into a fight. You can certainly say he got sucked into a fight, but not during the fight, before the fight. He choose to stand and fight with Duran. The press asked him during the build-up. Whats your strategy going to be against Duran?. "Stand flat-footed and beat him at his own game" Ray replied.

Many people forget, on the night this was a brawler beating a brawler, and not a brawler beating a boxer.
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Old 08-30-2007, 09:32 PM   #24
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Never Really Beat Duran

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Originally Posted by brownpimp88
Which roberto duran loss isnt valid, i mean it seems like people love to make an excuse for every loss he has. His loss to benitez wasn't legit, his loss to hearns wasn't legit, now his losses to leonard arent legit either. To me, duran is just overrated, he looks great against all of those B level fighters, but when he faces the true ATGs, he gets schooled, its as simple as that.
out of ray leonards mouth came the words

" my plan was to get him into the ring as soon as possible, because i knew he was living the high life, and there was no way that he could get into top shape. "

statement was made in beyond the glory and in the playboy interview.

that statement to me sounds as if ray had his own doubts about beating an in shape duran, to the point that he used this tactic to assure the tables were tilted in his favor.

there is no need to speculate as to what happened in that fight when the author of the plan brazenly boasts about it.
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Old 08-30-2007, 10:33 PM   #25
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Never Really Beat Duran

Terrible fight.
Leenard ran like a rabbit.
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Old 08-30-2007, 10:52 PM   #26
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Never Really Beat Duran

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Originally Posted by istmeno
out of ray leonards mouth came the words

" my plan was to get him into the ring as soon as possible, because i knew he was living the high life, and there was no way that he could get into top shape. "

statement was made in beyond the glory and in the playboy interview.

that statement to me sounds as if ray had his own doubts about beating an in shape duran, to the point that he used this tactic to assure the tables were tilted in his favor.

there is no need to speculate as to what happened in that fight when the author of the plan brazenly boasts about it.
Leonard has actually made those statements way before he did so on any playboy interview or beyond the glory.

I never really understood why he would boast about it because imo it takes away from his achievment.
Its as if Leonard is prouder of the fact that he won the political battle outside the ring calling the shots, than anything he ever did inside the ring.
Either that, or he's outright stupid to discredit his victories like that.


There's absolutely no question in my mind, Ray Leonard only faced a fit and prime ready Roberto Duran but one time, and that was in Montreal!
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Old 08-30-2007, 11:37 PM   #27
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Never Really Beat Duran

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Originally Posted by divac
Leonard has actually made those statements way before he did so on any playboy interview or beyond the glory.

I never really understood why he would boast about it because imo it takes away from his achievment.
Its as if Leonard is prouder of the fact that he won the political battle outside the ring calling the shots, than anything he ever did inside the ring.
Either that, or he's outright stupid to discredit his victories like that.
As ****y and egotistical as Leonard is, he's been kind of honest in some things he did and some of his opinions on a couple of his fights.

He's admitted that he knew Duran would balloon up in weight so he and Mike Trainer wanted an immediate rematch. He's said he decided to fight Hagler after seeing him look more vulnerable against Mugabi, and that he talked to Hagler later and Hagler sounded he like wanted to retire, and that made Ray want to fight him even more. Ray's also conceded that he lost the Hearns rematch.

Still, I give him credit for getting back in the ring with someone who just beat him, rather than wait for Duran to lose a fight or two and then rematch him.
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Old 08-30-2007, 11:49 PM   #28
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Never Really Beat Duran

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Originally Posted by istmeno
out of ray leonards mouth came the words

" my plan was to get him into the ring as soon as possible, because i knew he was living the high life, and there was no way that he could get into top shape. "

statement was made in beyond the glory and in the playboy interview.

that statement to me sounds as if ray had his own doubts about beating an in shape duran, to the point that he used this tactic to assure the tables were tilted in his favor.

there is no need to speculate as to what happened in that fight when the author of the plan brazenly boasts about it.
Of course he was concerned about beating an in shape Duran. He couldn't. Duran was a better boxer than Leonard. Even at welterweight, on their best night, Duran was Leonard's master. Leonard was smart enough to know that. So he manipulated the situation and got the win on his record.
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Old 08-30-2007, 11:51 PM   #29
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Never Really Beat Duran

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Originally Posted by brownpimp88
Which roberto duran loss isnt valid, i mean it seems like people love to make an excuse for every loss he has. His loss to benitez wasn't legit, his loss to hearns wasn't legit, now his losses to leonard arent legit either. To me, duran is just overrated, he looks great against all of those B level fighters, but when he faces the true ATGs, he gets schooled, its as simple as that.
So you're saying Leonard is a B level fighter?
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Old 08-31-2007, 12:30 AM   #30
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Never Really Beat Duran

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Originally Posted by brownpimp88
Which roberto duran loss isnt valid, i mean it seems like people love to make an excuse for every loss he has. His loss to benitez wasn't legit, his loss to hearns wasn't legit, now his losses to leonard arent legit either. To me, duran is just overrated, he looks great against all of those B level fighters, but when he faces the true ATGs, he gets schooled, its as simple as that.
Young man, it's "as simple as that" if you are simple-minded or have a simple understanding of boxing and what makes a fighter great.

Here's your first lesson: Name another natural LW in the history of the sport who could beat Leonard. Name another LW who could make the kind of stand Duran did against a prime MW who was an elite all-time champion of that division. Name another LW who would have taken the MW title 21 years after turning pro against a peaking, far larger, far stronger banger in Iran Barkely -and also put him down late in the fight.

This was all after (or years after) dominating the LW division for 7 years.
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