Sugar Ray Never Really Beat Duran

[smokin joe]

i challenge anybody if you have the time to watch the fights back to back and you will see the second fight was just a sparring session, a walk in the park, leanord should actually be ashamed that he couldnt knock him out, he had a beaten man in front of him for a long time and should of been able to ko him

[smokin joe]

ESPN.com: What does New Orleans mean to you? Duran: When I fought Leonard [there], I was just passing by. But then I went to Mardi Gras. It was like being in Vegas. People were having fun. ESPN.com: If you could have one chance to do one of your fights over again, which fight would it be and why? Duran: There would be four. Vinnie Pazienza, [Hector] Camacho, Leonard and [Thomas] Hearns. If I could, I would fight that first Leonard fight again. ESPN.com: The first Leonard fight? Why? Duran: Because I would beat him more convincingly [Duran won by unanimous decision in June 1980]. [As for] The second one, I didn't have enough time to train. [Leonard won by an eighth-round TKO]

according to the man himself he doesnt seem to care about the second leanord fight much

[apollack]

When you get a guy to quit, you've beaten him.

[smokin joe]

Originally Posted by apollack

When you get a guy to quit, you've beaten him.

or he was beat b4 he stepped in the ring, remember thats the second fight, so easy, first wasnt easy if fact, he did everything he could to win and still lost

[apollack]

Huh? Ray fought a completely different fight the second fight, utterly owned Duran mentally and frustrated him so badly that he convnced an all time great to give up, to not even continue trying. That's pretty darn impressive, and pretty darn sad.

[smokin joe]

if thats the case how come arther mercantes book, he says he met roberto duran and lost but if there ever was a moral victory ray gained it that night, in the rematch duran discrased himself and quit, and in the recent leanord carrer thing on espn classic, bernstein asked leanord how he felt after the lost to duran after they watchd that fight, and he said he really didnt feel bad at all, he felt he left it all in the ring, leanord got alot more credit for the first fight then the second

[smokin joe]

Originally Posted by smokin joe

if thats the case how come arther mercantes book, he says he met roberto duran and lost but if there ever was a moral victory ray gained it that night, in the rematch duran discrased himself and quit, and in the recent leanord carrer thing on espn classic, bernstein asked leanord how he felt after the lost to duran after they watchd that fight, and he said he really didnt feel bad at all, he felt he left it all in the ring, leanord got alot more credit for the first fight then the second

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] fight 1

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] fight 2

this is the whole point of this tread, only one guy showed up in the rematch

[divac]

Originally Posted by apollack

Huh? Ray fought a completely different fight the second fight, utterly owned Duran mentally and frustrated him so badly that he convnced an all time great to give up, to not even continue trying. That's pretty darn impressive, and pretty darn sad.

I have a strong feeling you did'nt see the fight.

I viewed it a few months back and Duran just slowly chased for the first few rounds with Leonard in full retreat......not many significant punches were landed......
There was no fire in Duran during the chase.......
......fatigue clearly set in around the 6th round on Duran....it was either the 6th or 7th, Duran was clearly dragging his punches (not sharp what so ever) and Leonard found it easier to counter him around this time.....
.....but Leonard would'nt dare throw more than 2 or 3 punches at a time without taking the time to back off and showboat.

During the 7th and 8th round, Leonard was doing more showboating than he was punching, but clearly with Duran laboring and his physical conditioning not up to par, Leonard could have really put a hurt on Duran if he pressed the issue.......

It is my opinion that Duran at this point knew that there was no way that he was going to beat Leonard in the physical condition he was in.
Had it continued, Leonard would have continued to embarrass Duran by showboating and potshotting.......and had Leonard sensed that Duran had little left to offer in the late round, its probable the Leonard would have laid it on the line and stopped Duran.

I believe Duran sensed all of this when he made his decision to quit.
Anybody else and Duran would have probably gutted it out and finished, but he was'nt going to be embarrassed or stopped by the fighter he hated with a passion in Ray Leonard, so Duran quit thinking he would have another crack at Leonard.....
.....but the 3rd fight never materialized, Leonard never gave Duran a 3rd match when it would have mattered!

[My dinner with Conteh]

Originally Posted by divac

I have a strong feeling you did'nt see the fight.

I viewed it a few months back and Duran just slowly chased for the first few rounds with Leonard in full retreat......not many significant punches were landed......
There was no fire in Duran during the chase.......
......fatigue clearly set in around the 6th round on Duran....it was either the 6th or 7th, Duran was clearly dragging his punches (not sharp what so ever) and Leonard found it easier to counter him around this time.....
.....but Leonard would'nt dare throw more than 2 or 3 punches at a time without taking the time to back off and showboat.

During the 7th and 8th round, Leonard was doing more showboating than he was punching, but clearly with Duran laboring and his physical conditioning not up to par, Leonard could have really put a hurt on Duran if he pressed the issue.......

It is my opinion that Duran at this point knew that there was no way that he was going to beat Leonard in the physical condition he was in.
Had it continued, Leonard would have continued to embarrass Duran by showboating and potshotting.......and had Leonard sensed that Duran had little left to offer in the late round, its probable the Leonard would have laid it on the line and stopped Duran.

I believe Duran sensed all of this when he made his decision to quit.
Anybody else and Duran would have probably gutted it out and finished, but he was'nt going to be embarrassed or stopped by the fighter he hated with a passion in Ray Leonard, so Duran quit thinking he would have another crack at Leonard.....
.....but the 3rd fight never materialized, Leonard never gave Duran a 3rd match when it would have mattered!

Good post. But a 3rd fight (in 1981) would have panned out almost exactly like the 2nd fight only Duran wouldn't have quit.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Originally Posted by TIGEREDGE

FUCK THE RECORD, RAY LEONARD NEVER REALLY BEAT ROBERT. I rate ray highly, but he never fought the real roberto in the last 2 fights of their trilogy.

Let's say, Leonard walks off in Round 8 of the first fight, because he's fallen behind on points. Does that count as a Duran win?

[My dinner with Conteh]

Originally Posted by divac

so Duran quit thinking he would have another crack at Leonard.....
.....but the 3rd fight never materialized, Leonard never gave Duran a 3rd match when it would have mattered!

Yeah, what a shame boxing history isn't littered with fighters saying "aah, fuck it, I can't be arsed tonight, let's do it again next time instead". I'm sure the sport would increase 100% in popularity. They'd have to hold every fight in 80,000 seater stadiums.

[divac]

Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh

Good post. But a 3rd fight (in 1981) would have panned out almost exactly like the 2nd fight only Duran wouldn't have quit.

Its certainly possible. Duran looked absolutely horrid vs Wilfredo Benitez in early 82'.....

Still, I feel had that been Leonard instead of Benitez that Duran fought in a 3rd match.....I wonder if the motivation to get rid of the No Mas stigma would'nt have fueled Duran and motivated to properly train for Leonard the runner.

In any regards, a win for Leonard over Duran at that point would have been a more significant win than his rematch win in NewOrleans.....there would have been absolutely no excuses about Duran coming in out of shape, and it would have set the record straight on whether Leonard's win was because of the adjustments Leonard made, or Duran just was ill prepared in NewOrleans.

[JohnThomas1]

Originally Posted by TIGEREDGE

i am a big ray loenard fan

You can't even spell his name, and you're a big fan after flaming him with this bile?

[Robbi]

I give Leonard an enormous amount of credit for winning the rematch. So much is spoken of Duran's surrender, and the fight is richly remembered for that rather than Leonard's performance. And rightly so, it was a weird scenario. It wasn't just any normal fighter who quit that night, it was Roberto Duran afterall.

Not sure how others scored the fight, but Duran won about three rounds at best, closely won as well. Leonard certainly had Duran in his pocket for almost the entire fight.

[young griffo]

Originally Posted by JohnThomas1

You can't even spell his name, and you're a big fan after flaming him with this bile?

You can spot the Leonard haters a mile off can't you?

I love how in their petty little minds a shameful surrender by Duran can still get twisted into an example of Leonards general rotteness as a fighter and person.

If only they'd judge Duran under the same criteria but that's a sacred cow these wimps wouldn't be game to touch.