Henry Cooper

[Bummy Davis]

The old Cooper held even with the young Bugner but Cooper was KO'd cold in 4 rds (no cuts) vs Floyd Patterson for measurement

[ChrisPontius]

Originally Posted by mcvey

Cooper was a mean sod in the ring but very gentle out side it.Years ago,
I was late getting to the Royal Albert Hall for a fight night and the first fight was all ready on I stood halfway up the stairs waiting to find my seat in between rounds ,so as not to block anyone's view.
Cooper was crouched in front of me waiting to do the same ,he was doing commentary for the BBC on the main bout,Seeing him there , as the bell rang for a joke I said" come on fella out.of the way" ,"I haven't got all night", he turned quicklly round ,[he is just under 6 2in,I am 5 8 1/2in], grinned and said "sorry mate you go first",mild mannered , the term could have been invented for him.

Nice story and ballsy move, shouldn't try that with a frustrated humorless guy like Holmes. How long ago did that happen?

[riggers]

Cooper was beaten by Ingo and Patterson by straight out KO's. You can see them on you tube. He went 15 with a green BUgner. Was cut to pieces by Clay and Ali ! He lies to this day about Clays glove being removed and him gettin an extra 3 minutes recovery time, fact is the interval lasted 1min 6 seconds and Clay came out and creamed him the next round.

As far as how good a heavy he was, he wanted quite rightly no part of Liston. He didn't beat any one of world class note.

Nowadays he would be a small cruiser. He is a gentleman, but that does not make him a better fighter.

[TheGreatA]

Originally Posted by riggers

Cooper was beaten by Ingo and Patterson by straight out KO's. You can see them on you tube. He went 15 with a green BUgner. Was cut to pieces by Clay and Ali ! He lies to this day about Clays glove being removed and him gettin an extra 3 minutes recovery time, fact is the interval lasted 1min 6 seconds and Clay came out and creamed him the next round.

As far as how good a heavy he was, he wanted quite rightly no part of Liston. He didn't beat any one of world class note.

Nowadays he would be a small cruiser. He is a gentleman, but that does not make him a better fighter.

Not sure if it's fair to say that Cooper beat no one of note. He beat most British competition including Joe Erskine, Joe Bygraves, Brian London, Jack Bodell and Dick Richardson.

Outside of British competition he had wins over Zora Folley, Karl Mildenberger, Wayne Bethea and Roy Harris. I believe Folley at the time was the number 1 ranked contender in the world.

Now you would have to be quite delusional to believe the Ali stories and to think that Cooper was great but he was a solid contender for many years which is very respectable.

[riggers]

He did not beat anyone of 'note' at the time. ALI, Frazier, Liston, Patterson, Johannson etc etc

[TheGreatA]

Originally Posted by riggers

He did not beat anyone of 'note' at the time. ALI, Frazier, Liston, Patterson, Johannson etc etc

I'd say that Folley was someone of note at the time since he was the number 1 ranked contender in the world.

[hoagy]

Originally Posted by TheGreatA

I'd say that Folley was someone of note at the time since he was the number 1 ranked contender in the world.

Folley was a good fighter and Henry was without a doubt one of the greatest Britsih H W & European ,and that knock down of Clay showed he was to be respected.That said he fought in the era just before the Golden Age of H W was about to take off and fought some duffers like Bodell and Bugner.
It was his manager Jim Wicks that kept him away from Liston when offered the fight...cannot say I blame him

[P4PNo.1]

Thanks for the replys. How would you rank him along side other British Heavys? Is he better than Bugner and Bruno?

[My dinner with Conteh]

He was obviously better than Bugner, he nearly beat him in his final fight. He can be compared with Bruno, but Big Frank would have wellied him if we're being honest.

[hoagy]

Better than Bugner for sure in his prime,eventhough Bugner went the Distance with Ali & Frazier twice over 12 and 15 against Ali.Joe was defensive and for most of his career lacked the killer instinct,with gentle Giant never far away from a description.Big Frank I think would have been too much for Henry.

[riggers]

Henry would have lasted less than 4 with Frank, and i am talking minutes not rounds. He lasted the distance with a green as grass Bugner. Bugner had a better resume by far. He also took Brunos best for a while and he was an old old man then. He hit Clay with his best ever punch and floored him, but what it really did was stop Clay pissing about and take care of business in the next round. Ingo destroyed him. Patterson destroyed him. Enry is a national treasure but that does not mean he was any good. He got KO'd more times than Bruno, and we call him chinny. He beat a number one contender. He beat Folley the first time on points, but got ..........wait for it KO'd in 2 in the return. Joe Bygraves KO'd him in 9. Peter Bates in 5. Then Ingo in 4. 3 stoppage defeats in a row. Only Ingo was halfway decent in world terms.

Big Frank would have wiped the floor with him, as would David Haye, Lennox Lewis, Gary Mason and others. Too small. A bleeder and Chinny. But a national treasure in the UK cos he floored Clay !

[My dinner with Conteh]

Originally Posted by hoagy

Better than Bugner for sure in his prime,eventhough Bugner went the Distance with Ali & Frazier twice over 12 and 15 against Ali.Joe was defensive and for most of his career lacked the killer instinct,with gentle Giant never far away from a description.Big Frank I think would have been too much for Henry.

Bugner was always more likely to go the distance as he was one of the most cautious fighters there's ever been, tall and with a very strong chin. Tony Tucker had similar ingredients. Both were the epitome of "Just glad to be here" fighters.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by riggers

Henry would have lasted less than 4 with Frank, and i am talking minutes not rounds. He lasted the distance with a green as grass Bugner. Bugner had a better resume by far. He also took Brunos best for a while and he was an old old man then. He hit Clay with his best ever punch and floored him, but what it really did was stop Clay pissing about and take care of business in the next round. Ingo destroyed him. Patterson destroyed him. Enry is a national treasure but that does not mean he was any good. He got KO'd more times than Bruno, and we call him chinny. He beat a number one contender. He beat Folley the first time on points, but got ..........wait for it KO'd in 2 in the return. Joe Bygraves KO'd him in 9. Peter Bates in 5. Then Ingo in 4. 3 stoppage defeats in a row. Only Ingo was halfway decent in world terms.

Big Frank would have wiped the floor with him, as would David Haye, Lennox Lewis, Gary Mason and others. Too small. A bleeder and Chinny. But a national treasure in the UK cos he floored Clay !

Bruno was stopped 5 times all by head punches.
Cooper's record is misleading .
His stoppages to Bates and Bacilieri were caused by cut eyes,his stoppage to Bygraves was a body shot .
Cooper was actually kod only 3 times by Patterson,Johannson ,and Folley.
All three could hit hard.
The Ali stoppages were cuts,so Cooper's chin wasnt too bad ,he was a good European level fighter imo ,not a great fighter but certainly not a third rater .








Both the Ali defeats were cuts

[riggers]

Look at the last round of the Clay fight and tell me he was not going to get KO'd.

He got stopped by a body shot, oh thats ok then.

The 5 guys who beat Frank would have all knocked out Cooper. And quicker.

Cooper was also outpointed by mediocre fighters.

Not saying he was awful, just not that good, there have been plenty of better British heavies. Enry gets a lot of extra kudos because hes Enry

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by riggers

Look at the last round of the Clay fight and tell me he was not going to get KO'd.

He got stopped by a body shot, oh thats ok then.

The 5 guys who beat Frank would have all knocked out Cooper. And quicker.

Cooper was also outpointed by mediocre fighters.

Not saying he was awful, just not that good, there have been plenty of better British heavies. Enry gets a lot of extra kudos because hes Enry

I mentioned the body shot because I thought you were including it when assessing Cooper's chin.There have been better British heavies, Farr for example ,but I think plenty is an exaggeration.