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Old 05-27-2009, 09:37 AM   #61
mcvey
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Default Re: How does Jack Johnson vs the best 160 or 168'er go?

[quote=Mendoza;4127703]
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Originally Posted by mcvey View Post

I think my purpose here to to engage in this thread. It seems your have too much of an agenda with Johnson. If I read wrong information I will try to correct it for the readers of the forum. It seems like you take it personal, then spin things in some sort of lame effort to undermine ring facts.

The truth is Johnson had 25+ fights under his belt, and was Kod in his home town by Choynski. To say Johnson was a novice here is wrong.

As for Johnson being in imminent danger vs top middles and supper middles I think Choynski proves it could happen. Ketchel also floored Johnson, and O'Brien out jabbed him. So yes--talented middles or supper middles could upset Johnson or make him look bad. The proof is in the pudding here, and we have three examples.
Your post is rather difficult to decipher [as usual] but I have acknowledged my oversight on Johnson's fights and posted it.
I can't understand your first two sentences, so won't comment on them.
Choynsky kod Johnson ,this is not exactly ground breaking stuff,I think everyone knows it.Ketchel floored Johnson again we all know this .
I am NOT going round the houses with you on the 6 rd NO DECISION Johnson engaged in with O Brien,we have been over this before with several posters including Janitor and Old Fogey I beleive , disagreeing wirh you on your interpretation of the event.
You spin a negative side on to any thing concerning Johnson and are famous for it.
BIGOTRY,THY NAME IS BIGOTRY.
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:30 AM   #62
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Default Re: How does Jack Johnson vs the best 160 or 168'er go?

I think Johnson was an exceptional fighter but there is no doubt his chin was not granite. His exceptional defense allowed him to dominate as long as he did ... while I'm sure it was not glass like Wlad, I think it was like Lennox Lewis, dentable if caught right ... that being said in reviewing Johnson's career one has to read between the lines. When motivated he was exceprional. Often he was lackluster.

Johnson against middleweights, a joke , right? He destroys any and all as he sees fit ..
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:47 AM   #63
Mendoza
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Default Re: How does Jack Johnson vs the best 160 or 168'er go?

[quote=mcvey;4127958]
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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post

Your post is rather difficult to decipher [as usual] but I have acknowledged my oversight on Johnson's fights and posted it.
I can't understand your first two sentences, so won't comment on them.
Choynsky kod Johnson ,this is not exactly ground breaking stuff,I think everyone knows it.Ketchel floored Johnson again we all know this .
I am NOT going round the houses with you on the 6 rd NO DECISION Johnson engaged in with O Brien,we have been over this before with several posters including Janitor and Old Fogey I beleive , disagreeing wirh you on your interpretation of the event.
You spin a negative side on to any thing concerning Johnson and are famous for it.
BIGOTRY,THY NAME IS BIGOTRY.
And thy name is ignorance. We have been over the fact than some news papers felt O'Brien was the better. And I posted a detailed round by round of the fight itself. I am sure you read it.

Simply acknowledge the fact that a past his best 160 pound man ( O'brien ) scored enough to the point he not only showed up the heavyweight champion of the world, but some felt was the better man.

Johnson's vaulted defense did not help him in this fight. It is my opinion that any skilled out fighter lands on Johnson, and this is backed up on film by a fringe level contender in Frank Moran scoring on a slightly past his best Johnson repeatedly in a 20 round contest. You should watch it sometime.

You continue to read with your eyes wide shut. I do not expect you to change your ways, but like I said before if you make bad mistake or two, I will correct it for the forum readers.

I see there was no reply on the Gunboat Smith TKO. Just say the word, and I can re-post the news clipping for you.
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Old 05-27-2009, 11:52 AM   #64
SuzieQ49
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Default Re: How does Jack Johnson vs the best 160 or 168'er go?

Quote:
and this is backed up on film by a fringe level contender in Frank Moran scoring on a slightly past his best Johnson repeatedly in a 20 round contest.
Johnson was far past his prime vs Moran. Not only had he fattened up to a obese 221lb, he also had been very inactive in the ring in the past 3 years, and was extremley rusty. He was also 36 years old. Johnson's prime was 1907-1910. When Johnson went to europe in 1912, he was never the same again. He got into whoring, partying, binge eating, alchohol, depression from running from authority...he fattenned up, he got old, his reflexes and timing lost sting. Still a good fighter, but nowhere near his prime.
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Old 05-27-2009, 12:02 PM   #65
Mendoza
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Default Re: How does Jack Johnson vs the best 160 or 168'er go?

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
Johnson was far past his prime vs Moran. Not only had he fattened up to a obese 221lb, he also had been very inactive in the ring in the past 3 years, and was extremley rusty. He was also 36 years old. Johnson's prime was 1907-1910. When Johnson went to europe in 1912, he was never the same again. He got into whoring, partying, binge eating, alchohol, depression from running from authority...he fattenned up, he got old, his reflexes and timing lost sting. Still a good fighter, but nowhere near his prime.
Some there think Johnson prime weight was 210 pounds, so is 11 pounds more that bad? Clearly Johnson was in good enough shape to go 20 rounds. If he was in bad shape, he does not go 20 rounds. I think Johnson was past his best for Moran, but I also feel he wasn't close to being a shot fighter.

The thing to focus on here is Moran was not that good, yet nearly took the decision. Johnson's defense did not help him, and he was in fact at a disadvantage in the out fighting. The full 20 rounds is out there if you care to view and score it for yourself. I do not think a 36 year old Louis or Holmes has a close fight with Moran.
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Old 05-27-2009, 06:26 PM   #66
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Default Re: How does Jack Johnson vs the best 160 or 168'er go?

[quote=Mendoza;4128745]
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Originally Posted by mcvey View Post

And thy name is ignorance. We have been over the fact than some news papers felt O'Brien was the better. And I posted a detailed round by round of the fight itself. I am sure you read it.

Simply acknowledge the fact that a past his best 160 pound man ( O'brien ) scored enough to the point he not only showed up the heavyweight champion of the world, but some felt was the better man.

Johnson's vaulted defense did not help him in this fight. It is my opinion that any skilled out fighter lands on Johnson, and this is backed up on film by a fringe level contender in Frank Moran scoring on a slightly past his best Johnson repeatedly in a 20 round contest. You should watch it sometime.

You continue to read with your eyes wide shut. I do not expect you to change your ways, but like I said before if you make bad mistake or two, I will correct it for the forum readers.

I see there was no reply on the Gunboat Smith TKO. Just say the word, and I can re-post the news clipping for you.
Its really funny you calling me ignorant ,you ,who cannot write a sentence without either a spelling mistake or a grammatical error in it.
As I said before you cannot debate with a bigot, especially one who has learning difficulties.
Johnson was a year older than than Jeffries was when he made his comeback he was dissipated and fat,he has a roll of suet hanging over his trunks ,Ive watched this fight probably 20 times .Do you think you can teach me anything about it? You sad twat.
Vaulted defence was he jumping over a gym horse?
For god's sake get some one to check your posts before you send them you pleb, you embarrass yourself.
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