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Old 05-27-2009, 04:50 PM   #16
mcvey
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Default Re: Stanely Ketchel vs Heavweights (50's to Now)

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
Hey McRacist,

If I produce a new paper article that says Jack Johnson was knocked down, and dazed to the point where his manager stopped the contest vs
Gunboat Smith, will you leave the forum for 3 months?

Ante up, or shut up. You're move.

PS: Its sad that you can not debate without crying ans screaming like a small child. At times, I do pity you.
Why would you call me a racist?
If you produced a hand written note by Smith that said he KOD JOHNSON I WOULD NOT BELEIVE YOU.
IT WAS NOT A CONTEST YOU STUPID ****.
IT WAS A SPAR.
Ive read both Johnson's and Smith's account of this ,thats good enough for me especially as they are identical.
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Old 05-28-2009, 01:08 AM   #17
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Default Re: Stanely Ketchel vs Heavweights (50's to Now)

Bwhahahaa, McVey sure is an angry old crusty one.
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Old 05-28-2009, 04:32 AM   #18
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Default Re: Stanely Ketchel vs Heavweights (50's to Now)

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Bwhahahaa, McVey sure is an angry old crusty one.
Not really ,I'm still a little pissed off with you for a couple of unfounded comments on Dempsey and Foster, but you contribute a lot on here ,with some thought provoking threads.
I dont have a problem with Mendoza in any other area ,its just this manic obsession with Jack Johnson, and his uncontrollable impulse to trash him,his posts are so self importantly pompous ,and bigoted,objectivity is as alien to him as a space craft would be to a Cave man.
How can he be so far up his own arse when he can barely string a sentence together?
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Old 05-28-2009, 06:51 AM   #19
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Default Re: Stanely Ketchel vs Heavweights (50's to Now)

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Not really ,I'm still a little pissed off with you for a couple of unfounded comments on Dempsey and Foster, but you contribute a lot on here ,with some thought provoking threads.
I dont have a problem with Mendoza in any other area ,its just this manic obsession with Jack Johnson, and his uncontrollable impulse to trash him,his posts are so self importantly pompous ,and bigoted,objectivity is as alien to him as a space craft would be to a Cave man.
How can he be so far up his own arse when he can barely string a sentence together?
McRacist,

Since you have a 137 IQ ( Yeah right ), I think it would be best if you could leave us average folks alone. After all you can't form a paragraph, and are either ADD or close minded when it comes to facts.

Once again I ask you this question. If I show you a news paper report that says Johnson was knocked down, and dazed to the point where his manager had to stop the four round affair, will you leave the forum?

Answer the question.
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Old 05-28-2009, 07:03 AM   #20
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Default Re: Stanely Ketchel vs Heavweights (50's to Now)

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Mcgrain is disputing that fact but he is saying it was sparring. sparring dont mean jack shit

also MRascist sounds like the new meal deal at mcdonalds
It was a 4 round exhibition match, which is a little different than a normal sparring session. Gunboat Smith was worthy of a title shot when Johnson was champion. Johnson did not offer him title shot in the ring, instead he picked guys Smith beat for title shots.

Since the poster McVey refuses to read what I write, you decide what happened. Below is a news paper read of the Johnson vs Smith match.

PS: There was mention of $30,000 offer for the Johnson vs Smith fight, but it never happened.

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Old 05-28-2009, 10:00 AM   #21
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Default Re: Stanely Ketchel vs Heavweights (50's to Now)

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
McRacist,

Since you have a 137 IQ ( Yeah right ), I think it would be best if you could leave us average folks alone. After all you can't form a paragraph, and are either ADD or close minded when it comes to facts.

Once again I ask you this question. If I show you a news paper report that says Johnson was knocked down, and dazed to the point where his manager had to stop the four round affair, will you leave the forum?

Answer the question.
Mr Retard.
You said Smith scored a TKO over Johnson.
How can you score a TKO when it is not a fight?
Please explain, in your own sub normal way what this means.
"and are either ADD or close minded when it comes to facts"
What the **** does that mean?
YOU IMBECILE!
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Old 05-28-2009, 10:08 AM   #22
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Default Re: Stanely Ketchel vs Heavweights (50's to Now)

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Let's run through the list you named.

Eddie Machen - A highly skilled heavyweight. Just because Ingo caught him doesn't mean that Ketchel is going to do the same too. Ketchel does not win here.

Harold Johnson - A LHW, but technically even better than Machen. No luck here for Stanley.

Zora Folley - Ditto Eddie Machen.

Archie Moore - Again a LHW. Excellent skills and chilling power. Knocks out Ketchel.

Doug Jones - Gave a young Ali a hell of a fight and beat Bob Foster. I wouldn't place my money on Ketchel here.

Karl Midenberger - Ali said that Karl gave him his toughest fight till that time. Maybe. Maybe Ketchel has an outside chance here. Remember, I only said an outside chance.

Sonny Liston - Sonny is booked for murder after the fight.

Floyd Patterson - Maybe Stanley catches Floyd and decks him a la Jack Johnson. But it is not a 'maybe' that Floyd puts Stanley away for good in the middle rounds whether he is decked or not.

Mac Foster - Foster too big and strong for Stanley. Ketchel may look good against the robotic Mac Foster briefly. But when Mac catches Ketchel as he is bound to do sooner rather than latter, expect a finish similar to the Johnson fight.

Ernie Terrell - Octupas armed Terrell proves to be way too big and his under-rated skills are too much for Ketchel.

Oscar Bonaven - Ketchel hurts his hands on the head of the madly rushing Bonavena. Oscar laughs at Stanley's efforts and proceeds to knock him out.

Ali, Frazier & Foreman - No answer needed. I respect everyone's imagination.

For Ketchel to do well against a HW, two things are required. One, a small HW. Two, a HW with limited fighting qualities. No one on the list qualifies.
looks good to me !! and i especially liked the sonny liston remarks
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Old 05-28-2009, 09:01 PM   #23
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Default Re: Stanely Ketchel vs Heavweights (50's to Now)

Ketchel would have no chance against the more modern skilled HW's from the 50's on up. There were simply more good big men during this time period than there were during Ketchel's time. As for flooring Johnson, I'm not convinced that was a legit knockdown. It looks like Jack ducked and the punch landed behind his head. It certainly didn't catch him on the jaw. At any rate the more modern HW's would have a field day with the smaller wild swinging hands down Ketchel. Someone posted that as the years went by you didn't see matchups like Ketchel-Johnson anymore and there's a reason for that. Picture Louis, Ali, Holmes, Liston et al against the respective MW champion of the time. It would be a catastrophe. Aside from say Mickey Walker I can't think of a scenario would this would work.
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Old 05-29-2009, 12:01 AM   #24
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Default Re: Stanely Ketchel vs Heavweights (50's to Now)

My retirement plan would be to bet on whoever Ketchel is facing by ko.
My days of want and worry would soon be over.
If only if this was for real.
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Old 05-29-2009, 03:44 AM   #25
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Default Re: Stanely Ketchel vs Heavweights (50's to Now)

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Originally Posted by JIm Broughton View Post
Ketchel would have no chance against the more modern skilled HW's from the 50's on up. There were simply more good big men during this time period than there were during Ketchel's time. As for flooring Johnson, I'm not convinced that was a legit knockdown. It looks like Jack ducked and the punch landed behind his head. It certainly didn't catch him on the jaw. At any rate the more modern HW's would have a field day with the smaller wild swinging hands down Ketchel. Someone posted that as the years went by you didn't see matchups like Ketchel-Johnson anymore and there's a reason for that. Picture Louis, Ali, Holmes, Liston et al against the respective MW champion of the time. It would be a catastrophe. Aside from say Mickey Walker I can't think of a scenario would this would work.
Ive really wondered about this, on some copies of the film Johnson appears to be falling a split second before the punch lands.
Gunboat Smith, Johnson's sparring partner for the fight said "they pulled a fake knockdown".
I'm not saying Ketchel was not capable of knocking down Johnson ,its just I'm not totally convinced.
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Old 05-29-2009, 03:56 AM   #26
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Default Re: Stanely Ketchel vs Heavweights (50's to Now)

I've seen very good quality of film of the Johnson/Ketchel fight and the knockdown, to me, looked very fake. As McVey says he was going down a split second before the punch even landed.

Really, wasn't very unusual to hype rematches up by doing such things back then. There was no TV, no PPV... You had to hype your next potential payday up right there and then.

Langford carrying Ketchel for a potential rematch comes to mind as well. Hell, even Ketchel's weight was manipulated for the Johnson fight so it'd be more of a draw. And then there's Dempsey carrying Carpentier, etc etc.
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Old 05-29-2009, 03:57 AM   #27
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Default Re: Stanely Ketchel vs Heavweights (50's to Now)

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I've seen very good quality of film of the Johnson/Ketchel fight and the knockdown, to me, looked very fake. As McVey says he was going down a split second before the punch even landed.

Really, wasn't very unusual to hype rematches up by doing such things back then. There was no TV, no PPV... You had to hype your next potential payday up right there and then.

Langford carrying Ketchel for a potential rematch comes to mind as well. Hell, even Ketchel's weight was manipulated for the Johnson fight so it'd be more of a draw. And then there's Dempsey carrying Carpentier, etc etc.
Up early?
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Old 05-29-2009, 04:03 AM   #28
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Default Re: Stanely Ketchel vs Heavweights (50's to Now)

Haven't gone to bed yet.
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Old 05-29-2009, 04:57 AM   #29
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Default Re: Stanely Ketchel vs Heavweights (50's to Now)

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Haven't gone to bed yet.
When I was young, [during theWar], we used to go out at night ,with tuppence in our pocket,drink for 3 days ,buy fifty Woodbines , have fish and chips and a hansom cab home , and still have a penny in our pocket
Tight c***s we were,never bought a shout!.
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Old 05-29-2009, 11:06 AM   #30
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Default Re: Stanely Ketchel vs Heavweights (50's to Now)

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Bwhahahaa, McVey sure is an angry old crusty one.
Well, I don't know about crusty. That would take visual conformation and I'm not going there.

But I am curious to see another readers take on the Gunboat Smith Vs Jack Johnson 4 round affair.

What do you think, Russell. The article says Johnson was down from a punch, dazed on his feet, and his manager had to cut the last round short.

Your feed back would be appreciated.

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