Mike Tyson .Vs. Sonny Liston

[JohnThomas1]

Originally Posted by Holmes' Jab

Liston: Not intimidated + great jab + chin + power + great inside/outside fighter with terrific defence. I think he wins (in a barnstormer).

Tyson will land and will have his share of moments, but I think there will be an all out slugfest at somestage and Liston will come out on top. I just think he'd react better at getting hit than Tyson will, plus he's got the significant thing Foreman didn't have: great techinique and defensive skill.

You just reminded me to answer your PM tonight. Sorry mate, was very late when i got it and haven't got around to replying.

[Flea Man]

Tyson K.O 2.

And before anyone flames me, yes I'm aware of who Liston is. I also predicted Kid Dyanmite K.O 4 over Ali, so I'm not underrating Liston. I just think Kid Dynamite was a beast, and spoiling aside (Bonecrusher) I can't see anyone standing up to him. I'd even go as far to say he would drop and spark Chuvalo within five rounds.

[Holmes' Jab]

Originally Posted by JohnThomas1

You just reminded me to answer your PM tonight. Sorry mate, was very late when i got it and haven't got around to replying.

Not a bother, mate. Just whenever you're able to.

[Holmes' Jab]

Originally Posted by fleaman

Tyson K.O 2.

And before anyone flames me, yes I'm aware of who Liston is. I also predicted Kid Dyanmite K.O 4 over Ali, so I'm not underrating Liston. I just think Kid Dynamite was a beast, and spoiling aside (Bonecrusher) I can't see anyone standing up to him. I'd even go as far to say he would drop and spark Chuvalo within five rounds.

Holy moley.

[PowerPuncher]

Tyson by KO, too much speed, Liston's jab won't land because Tyson slipped jabs so well, Tyson gets his shots off first and at some stage knocks Liston out. Liston probably catches Tyson with some good shots for his trouble but ultimately doesn't land enough while taking a savage beating. I'd say around 5rounds.

[Holmes' Jab]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Tyson by KO, too much speed, Liston's jab won't land because Tyson slipped jabs so well, Tyson gets his shots off first and at some stage knocks Liston out. Liston probably catches Tyson with some good shots for his trouble but ultimately doesn't land enough while taking a savage beating. I'd say around 5rounds.

Tyson never faced a jab as great as Liston's. Period. Of course he beat a faded Larry, but we're talking a prime matchup here. I know people will say a jab isn't the only thinkg needed to beat a prime Tyson, but Liston's was such a great one that of course it will be a big factor. I don't think Sonny needs to force the action here, just let his jab flow and if Tyson gets inside, break his rythmn up and go to work on him. As people will know Tyson was often pedestrian on the inside and prefered to take breathers frequently. Thing with Liston his he's equally adept fighting up close, midrange, on the outside as well as boxing/slugging. Tyson's only real stellar range is midrange. I also think this will be a battle of the wills and I think Tyson will be more in awe of Liston than vice versa.

[Bokaj]

An interesting question is how the Tyson who faced Berbick would do against the Liston that Clay beat. How would young Tyson, still unproven, react mentally confronting as feared a champion as Liston was then? There's hell of a lot difference facing Berbick for your first big test and facing Liston when he was a champ and as feared as he was then.

[JohnThomas1]

Originally Posted by fleaman

Tyson K.O 2.

And before anyone flames me, yes I'm aware of who Liston is. I also predicted Kid Dyanmite K.O 4 over Ali, so I'm not underrating Liston. I just think Kid Dynamite was a beast, and spoiling aside (Bonecrusher) I can't see anyone standing up to him. I'd even go as far to say he would drop and spark Chuvalo within five rounds.

So you're backing Tyson to KO peak Ali in 4 when Tyson at peak himself took the time he did to put away a shopworn Thomas and way over the hill and rusty Holmes?

[Holmes' Jab]

Originally Posted by JohnThomas1

So you're backing Tyson to KO peak Ali in 4 when Tyson at peak himself took the time he did to put away a shopworn Thomas and way over the hill and rusty Holmes?

To be fair I thought Pinky fought well against Tyson, until he was ultimately caught. He didn't just clam up he came to fight, which I respect. He was past his best, though undoubtedly, but still.

[AREA 53]

Slipping Listons Jab and coming inside. perhaps would not deliver the same results for Tyson, that slipping The Jabs of other, "non-predatory" Fighters Tyson Met Like Tubbs, Thomas, Biggs, Etc, acheived, Liston would probably Prey for an Insde Fight, Ok Give him a few Extra Inches Punching Room.

Sometimes Mike Does not keep working when up Very Close, (As a Frazier Would) and with his feet often too close together he can be pushed back as Holyfield Showed, I actually Do not have complete faith in Either to Grit it out if things start to go against them to any great degree, Unlike against mobile Boxers who they will, all being well, belive that they can ultimately catch up with and despatch, but in this match, both would recognise the other as a Heavy Density Predator , who doesnt let woulded prey off the hook, but destroys it in Brutal quick order !

Sometimes when tyson feels threatened he seems to up the Trash Talk, But would he Tell Liston he was going to make him his Girlfriend ? somehow i doubt it, i think they both spoke each others language, Liston with looks more then words, and intimidation will not work, this one would have to be won through deed, and is it not beyond the bounds of possibility that Tyson might implode mentally and commit some horrendous Foul ? or liston if he starts to take a consistent Battering might Mentally Fold as opposed to Physically, with the Physical Fold to Follow ? Both are Great "On Top" fighters its when one Slips behind that the uncertainty begins, Tyson would probably be Favoured by the Younger Follower with Perhaps The Older Follower Favouring Liston ? ( I.m Probably In The Middle !)

I would feel that Tyson would be made the overall Bookies Favourite, But in which case would fancy an upset, i think a young - pre championship Liston has the determination to Make Tyson Work and Take him to the Middle rounds, as i can see a lot of clinching and mauling, with each Fighters Bombruns being Sporadic and Short Lived, as Tyson Tires Liston may find His Jab Starts to become much more Effective. once Liston is Comfortable with the Pace, i Can See Tyson Winding Down Somewhat, and as Liston feels his Second Wind coming on, i can See maintaining the pace and Keeping the Action Steady , but steady in his Favour, Like perhaps his fight with Machen, It may depend on how a tiring Tyson keeps it together as to wether he hears the final bell or not, if he starts Stumbling in Throwing Single shots before falling into a Clinch, i think Liston would at some stage catch him coming in for perhaps an 8th Round ko,

Tyson was reputed to be at his best in the Spinks Fight, BUT was spinks really that much of a barometer that night, Mercury may not freeze but Spinks surely did ! so once again Tyson had enjoyed things so very much his own way, But what would happen if this young Man-Child Starting couldnt intimidate his young strong opponent, and started taking his own medicine from the Stoney Faced one ?

If we are talking about A 22 - 24 year old Tyson against a 28-29 year old Liston then Perhaps Sonny could of kept his (Embryonic ?) Inner demons in check long enough to get through the Dangerous early rounds until the Fight Settles down to a pace more Suited for Sonny ? He certainly has the strenght not to be bullied, Their Both Sprinters to a degree, Tyson much the Faster, but can he stay with Liston over a Longer Distence ? Whilst it wouldnt Shock me if Tyson was to Treat Liston Like he did Frank Bruno, i would favour the Upset with perhaps a Younger Liston displaying a Disipiline and fortitude not usually associated with him, perhaps unfairly because of the clay results, but this Sonny was aging and overconfident by then,

The Younger Liston could certainly cope with tyson's Intimidation because he could undertand it, he was after all a past-master himself, but i do have my doubts as to wether the perhap smore all-round Talented Tyson, - But A ManChild in his Acredited Prime, - could hold it together mentally when he finds himself on the receiving end from Liston !

Truth to tell, if they both just cut loose, when the Mushroom Cloud clears it could be anyone on the canvas, Tyson is an instinctual operator, but if Liston comes in behind the heavy Jab, Jams Tysons Attack Signals, puts Static in his Attic, and breeds in Tyson a sense of caution and having to Think before firing, then Sonny could nullify any disadvantage in lack of speed and create the openings and targeting time he requires to unload successfully.

Its easy to become seduced by Tyson on the strengh of his usual unhindered output, but i feel Tyson will not be nearly so effective when he has to operate while nasty Payloads are Incoming. Not from a technical "Boxer" Remember - But from a fellow destroyer

Two Bullies, Two Great "OnTop" Fighters, Man against Man Child

Call them what you will, I could easily of been proven wrong but

I'd Plumb for The Younger "Prime" Stoney-Faced One.

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by Holmes' Jab

Tyson never faced a jab as great as Liston's. Period. Of course he beat a faded Larry, but we're talking a prime matchup here. I know people will say a jab isn't the only thinkg needed to beat a prime Tyson, but Liston's was such a great one that of course it will be a big factor. I don't think Sonny needs to force the action here, just let his jab flow and if Tyson gets inside, break his rythmn up and go to work on him. As people will know Tyson was often pedestrian on the inside and prefered to take breathers frequently. Thing with Liston his he's equally adept fighting up close, midrange, on the outside as well as boxing/slugging. Tyson's only real stellar range is midrange. I also think this will be a battle of the wills and I think Tyson will be more in awe of Liston than vice versa.

Tyson faced better jabs than Listons, he faced so many quality jabbers its untrue, Listons jab was relatively slow and hence easier to slip

Tyson lands first with fast combinations at mid range just like Ali did, Ali really messed up and hurt Liston at mid range in the first fight, people forget that

[Rock0052]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Tyson faced better jabs than Listons, he faced so many quality jabbers its untrue, Listons jab was relatively slow and hence easier to slip

Tyson lands first with fast combinations at mid range just like Ali did, Ali really messed up and hurt Liston at mid range in the first fight, people forget that

Agreed. Liston's Mr. Fantastic-like reach would work against him here- by the time he pulled that jab back, Mike would've been fast and precise enough to have slipped inside and attacked through that opening; that was Tyson absolutely feasted on when he faced slower fighters. I think once Liston gets a taste of Mike's power and quick, precise shots, combined with Tyson neutralizing his most effective weapon, he'd get demoralized.

Chalk me up for Tyson TKO5.

[ChrisPontius]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Tyson by KO, too much speed, Liston's jab won't land because Tyson slipped jabs so well, Tyson gets his shots off first and at some stage knocks Liston out. Liston probably catches Tyson with some good shots for his trouble but ultimately doesn't land enough while taking a savage beating. I'd say around 5rounds.

My thought as well.


As for Liston's jab.... first of all, i have strong doubts that this fight will be decided on the outside. Liston:
a) was too slow on his feet to stick and move
b) never did this; he was the stalker

Second, Liston is only 6'0 or 6'1. Tyson got past jabs from athletic, faster men who were 6'3-6'5 tall, in which case it is a LOT harder to close the gap.

At mid-range, Tyson much faster fists, better chin, and shorter arms will see him win many exchanges. Plus, Mike is more proven against 210+lbs rated heavyweights.

[GPater11093]

great post AREA 53

[SuzieQ49]

In my opinion.....Pinklon Thomas was slightly past his best, but still a dangerous top ranking contender when he fought tyson. only after the tyson beating did thomas turn into a shell.