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Old 09-03-2007, 06:52 AM   #16
JohnThomas1
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Default Re: Fighters losing their chins...

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
I second this. Worst thing Jeff did was get involved with American boxing (specifically King). The screw job vs Nelson drained the life out of him.


ps. Where did Lloyd Honeghan's chin go?
You got a point there. His big coming out turned out to be the beginning of the end. Agree with Honeyghan too, another good addition.
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Old 09-03-2007, 06:55 AM   #17
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Default Re: Fighters losing their chins...

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Originally Posted by Stewbear
There is no evidence that Jones suddenly got a glass jaw, while the Liston stop was more due to exhastion, I mean he was in his 40's, and had been dominateing the fight up to then scoring a knockdown if i remember right
There's no evidence Liston threw the second Ali bout either (tho i vote he did) so szome might question where his chin went in that one (not me)

I wouldn't doubt Jones chin went, those punches were pretty innocuous and he definitely took harder over the years. I mean look how long he was out.
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Old 09-03-2007, 06:59 AM   #18
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Default Re: Fighters losing their chins...

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Originally Posted by Stewbear
There is no evidence that Jones suddenly got a glass jaw, while the Liston stop was more due to exhastion, I mean he was in his 40's, and had been dominateing the fight up to then scoring a knockdown if i remember right
You might be right with Liston's stoppage being down to exhaustion.

Jones however, I disagree with you. I don't subscribe to the theory that Jones always had a glass jaw and that he was just able to hide this throughout his career due to superior skills and the ability to evade blows etc. It is true that in comparison to most other boxers Jones was very rarely hit hard throughout his prime. However, he did for example take some good shots against Tarver in their 1st fight. If you look at the quality of some of the fighters Jones has shared the ring with I believe if he had a suspect chin it would have been uncovered a long time before his later KO loses. He even faced the hard hitting Gerald McClellan in the amateurs, yes he lost this fight but he was never put down.
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Old 09-03-2007, 06:59 AM   #19
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Default Re: Fighters losing their chins...

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Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
There's no evidence Liston threw the second Ali bout either (tho i vote he did) so szome might question where his chin went in that one (not me)

I wouldn't doubt Jones chin went, those punches were pretty innocuous and he definitely took harder over the years. I mean look how long he was out.
The only evidence you need is to watch the fight.
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Old 09-03-2007, 07:00 AM   #20
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Default Re: Fighters losing their chins...

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Originally Posted by Sweet Science
You might be right with the Liston.

Jones however, I disagree with you. I don't subscribe to the theory that Jones always had a glass jaw and that he was just able to hide this through his superior skills and ability to evade blows etc. It is true that in comparisson most other boxers Jones was very rarely hit hard throughout his prime. However, he did take some good shots against Tarver in their 1st fight. If you look at the quality of some of the fighters Jones has shared the ring with I believe if he had a suspect chin it would have been uncovered a long time before his later KO loses. He even faced the hard hitting Gerald McClellan in the amateurs, lost but was never put down.
Can think of examples of Liston taking hard punches, but not Jones, that is the difference.
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Old 09-03-2007, 07:04 AM   #21
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Default Re: Fighters losing their chins...

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Originally Posted by Stewbear
Can think of examples of Liston taking hard punches, but not Jones, that is the difference.
So you are going to tell me Jones didn't take any hard punches in 14 years and 49 fights including bouts vs Hopkins and Toney? Better suit him up for greatest fighter ever honors.
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Old 09-03-2007, 07:29 AM   #22
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Default Re: Fighters losing their chins...

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Originally Posted by Stewbear
The only evidence you need is to watch the fight.
What you need to do is watch the (Jones) previous 50, with both eyes open. You might be shocked at what you see, as well as enlightened



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Old 09-03-2007, 07:31 AM   #23
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Default Re: Fighters losing their chins...

Liston wasn't that exhausted, although much of it had to do with age and not very good shape. He was hit more often from the start of the fight with Martin, what's worse he was repeatedly losing exchanges of jabs, sometimes getting hit with several jabs in a row without being able to land one on his own (despite big advantage in reach). His timing was too bad by this point.
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Old 09-03-2007, 07:46 AM   #24
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Default Re: Fighters losing their chins...

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Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
What you need to do is watch the (Jones) previous 50, with both eyes open. You might be shocked at what you see, as well as enlightened



Where and who against did Jones take big punches from then, examples please
Oh and with his amazing reflexes, and questionable opposition it is not all that surprising.
He has also been knocked down and hurt before.
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Old 09-03-2007, 07:47 AM   #25
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Default Re: Fighters losing their chins...

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Originally Posted by Stewbear
Where and who against did Jones take big punches from then, examples please
Oh and with his amazing reflexes, and questionable opposition it is not all that surprising.
He has also been knocked down and hurt before.
Watch Jones-Tarver 1, he took some good shots in that fight.
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Old 09-03-2007, 08:48 AM   #26
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Default Re: Fighters losing their chins...

john mugabi

john took fearsome amount of shots from hagler he was walking right on to these right hooks. he fell and was just staring at mills but was way to tired to continue. then he was stopped not by knock out but becuase of injusry in his next fight still taking alot of punches.

then it all went down hill terry norris drove him into the ground and mcClellen made him do very similar manouvres.

then he just seemed to get hit and dropped easier and easier.
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Old 09-03-2007, 01:43 PM   #27
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Default Re: Fighters losing their chins...

One classic case of a fighter who suddenly "lost his chin" was Doug DeWitt, who impressed me by going the limit in losing a decision to Thomas Hearns over a decade ago. That guy took everything Hearns threw at him, and never seemed in danger of going down. It was either his next fight or the one after that, he was ko'd shockingly by a guy named Jose Quinones in a fight televised by ESPN, or the USA network. He was, a few fights later somehow given a shot at Sumbu Kalambay, again televised on ESPN I think, and Kalambay, who was never known as a puncher, ko'd DeWitt with one punch in the 4th or 5tth. Doug was tough and persistant and a bit lucky to say the least, and was put in with Robbie Simms for a vacant version of the Middleweight title a little while later and won a decision with no knockdowns to claim the title. In his second defense, he was demolished by Nigel Benn. He was a sturdy, iron chinned fighter for years before suddenly crumpling to Quinones and those other guys. Maybe his LaMotta type performance against Hearns took it all away from him, who knows. Another case was that of Sean O'Grady, who had 70 or 80 something fights and won a part of the Lightweight crown against Hilmer Kenty. Tough, tough Irish kid who had some skills. In his first fight after Kenty he was blown away by Andy Gannigan, and then later by another guy whose name I can't remember.
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Old 09-03-2007, 01:50 PM   #28
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Default Re: Fighters losing their chins...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
Liston wasn't that exhausted, although much of it had to do with age and not very good shape. He was hit more often from the start of the fight with Martin, what's worse he was repeatedly losing exchanges of jabs, sometimes getting hit with several jabs in a row without being able to land one on his own (despite big advantage in reach). His timing was too bad by this point.
Agreed, Liston wasn't exhausted. Those were three very, very hard, purposeful assasin-like shots from Martin, perhaps one of the best 3-punch combos I've ever seen thrown. Liston went down like he was shot, and stayed down for over five minutes. You almost worried that Martin had killed Liston, as he laid there face down for minutes, just motionless. Liston was falling apart as a fight of course, up to the ko, but nothing can take the credit away from those three devastating shots from Martin, his finest, and final moments of his career.
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Old 09-05-2007, 09:31 AM   #29
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Default Re: Fighters losing their chins...

Super Greg Page, after 1985
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Old 09-05-2007, 11:06 AM   #30
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Default Re: Fighters losing their chins...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vantage_West
john mugabi

john took fearsome amount of shots from hagler he was walking right on to these right hooks. he fell and was just staring at mills but was way to tired to continue. then he was stopped not by knock out but becuase of injusry in his next fight still taking alot of punches.

then it all went down hill terry norris drove him into the ground and mcClellen made him do very similar manouvres.

then he just seemed to get hit and dropped easier and easier.
What was interesting to me about Mugabe was that he seemed to have actually lost his punch after Hagler as well. Prior to meeting Hagler, he seemed to be the deadliest puncher in any weight division. Even Frank "The Animal" Fletcher, as superaggressive as he usually was, tried to play cutie with the "The Beast."

I appreciate that Mugabe went after the big time with Hagler, but John might have been better off making a play for a junior middleweight title first.

Most frequently, the legs are supposed to go first, and the punch last. How odd, that Mugabe's punch was lost so early on.
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