boxing
Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-20-2009, 03:49 PM   #61
Mendoza
Dominating a decade
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,741
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jim Corbett/Gene Tunney Sparring Story

Quote:
Originally Posted by spittle8 View Post
Maybe I'm just an ignorant cuss but I didn't find that video impressive. Corbett's punching was bizarre, and he hands were not protecting his face. He looked open to some counter's for sure.

Can someone please explain how that footage showed a skillful man? Not being a ****, I'm quite serious.
I sent the link to historian Monte Cox. Below are his comments.

Ive been watching that "uppercut" of Corbett. It looks like a punch from Northern and some southern styles of Kung Fu. Notice how the punch lands he is hitting with a vertical fist not like an uppercut that modern western boxing would see at all. I would say it could be a specialized sneak punch that would be situational. Probably not legal in today's boxing but I wouldnt say it was worthless, it would be quite damaging if it landed and is just as awkward to anticipate as say Razor Ruddock's half hook uppercut.

Corbett's jab is a vertical punch, he doesn't turn it over like in modern boxing, similar to the way Ali through his jab but he commits more. It looks just like a Wing Chun vertical straight punch, this is also used in Bruce Lee's JKD, White Crane (where it likely originated) and in Isshin-Ryu Karate.

In the sequence prior to Tunney throwing the right to the body Corbett uses something similar to a wing block from Wing Chun and is in position to parry.

When Corbett is demonstrating the aggressive clinch which includes some holding and hitting going right to the body to jaw several times- he first breaks his opponents Kuzushi upsetting his balance which makes the follow up possible.

I see a lot of martial arts related techniques in this old style of boxing which really makes me curious because I have heard about links between the two styles before.

Makes for a fascinating study
Mendoza is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 06-20-2009, 04:07 PM   #62
spittle8
Dropping Fisticuffs
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Detroit/Camp Pendleton
Posts: 512
vCash: 1404
Default Re: Jim Corbett/Gene Tunney Sparring Story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
I sent the link to historian Monte Cox. Below are his comments.

Ive been watching that "uppercut" of Corbett. It looks like a punch from Northern and some southern styles of Kung Fu. Notice how the punch lands he is hitting with a vertical fist not like an uppercut that modern western boxing would see at all. I would say it could be a specialized sneak punch that would be situational. Probably not legal in today's boxing but I wouldnt say it was worthless, it would be quite damaging if it landed and is just as awkward to anticipate as say Razor Ruddock's half hook uppercut.

Corbett's jab is a vertical punch, he doesn't turn it over like in modern boxing, similar to the way Ali through his jab but he commits more. It looks just like a Wing Chun vertical straight punch, this is also used in Bruce Lee's JKD, White Crane (where it likely originated) and in Isshin-Ryu Karate.

In the sequence prior to Tunney throwing the right to the body Corbett uses something similar to a wing block from Wing Chun and is in position to parry.

When Corbett is demonstrating the aggressive clinch which includes some holding and hitting going right to the body to jaw several times- he first breaks his opponents Kuzushi upsetting his balance which makes the follow up possible.

I see a lot of martial arts related techniques in this old style of boxing which really makes me curious because I have heard about links between the two styles before.

Makes for a fascinating study
Interesting, thanks for sharing. It doesn't look unsophisticated, just different. Any relation between Oriental striking arts and old boxing are worth noting.
spittle8 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2009, 04:07 PM   #63
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,771
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jim Corbett/Gene Tunney Sparring Story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
I sent the link to historian Monte Cox. Below are his comments.

Ive been watching that "uppercut" of Corbett. It looks like a punch from Northern and some southern styles of Kung Fu. Notice how the punch lands he is hitting with a vertical fist not like an uppercut that modern western boxing would see at all. I would say it could be a specialized sneak punch that would be situational. Probably not legal in today's boxing but I wouldnt say it was worthless, it would be quite damaging if it landed and is just as awkward to anticipate as say Razor Ruddock's half hook uppercut.

Corbett's jab is a vertical punch, he doesn't turn it over like in modern boxing, similar to the way Ali through his jab but he commits more. It looks just like a Wing Chun vertical straight punch, this is also used in Bruce Lee's JKD, White Crane (where it likely originated) and in Isshin-Ryu Karate.

In the sequence prior to Tunney throwing the right to the body Corbett uses something similar to a wing block from Wing Chun and is in position to parry.

When Corbett is demonstrating the aggressive clinch which includes some holding and hitting going right to the body to jaw several times- he first breaks his opponents Kuzushi upsetting his balance which makes the follow up possible.

I see a lot of martial arts related techniques in this old style of boxing which really makes me curious because I have heard about links between the two styles before.

Makes for a fascinating study
The emerging picture seems to be that Corbett had a highly unorthodox and probably unpredictable style.

I think it incorporated a fair few of his own aditions some of which were followed up by later fighters and some of which were not.

If you put him in with a contemporary fighter I dont know exactly what would happen but they would see a few things coming at them that they had not seen before.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2009, 04:09 PM   #64
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,771
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jim Corbett/Gene Tunney Sparring Story

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
Mendoza,

Even CyberboxingZone with the panel of IBRO historians does not agree with your assessment corbett was 59-0. In fact They have corbett listed as fighting mostly exhibitions that you probably confuse for pro fights.
To be fair to Mendoza a lot of fights of that era were billed as exhibitions for legal reasons. This makes it verry hard to establish exactly what Corbetts true record was.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2009, 05:32 PM   #65
Arka
newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Grimsby,United Kingdom
Posts: 0
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jim Corbett/Gene Tunney Sparring Story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
I sent the link to historian Monte Cox. Below are his comments.

Ive been watching that "uppercut" of Corbett. It looks like a punch from Northern and some southern styles of Kung Fu. Notice how the punch lands he is hitting with a vertical fist not like an uppercut that modern western boxing would see at all. I would say it could be a specialized sneak punch that would be situational. Probably not legal in today's boxing but I wouldnt say it was worthless, it would be quite damaging if it landed and is just as awkward to anticipate as say Razor Ruddock's half hook uppercut.

Corbett's jab is a vertical punch, he doesn't turn it over like in modern boxing, similar to the way Ali through his jab but he commits more. It looks just like a Wing Chun vertical straight punch, this is also used in Bruce Lee's JKD, White Crane (where it likely originated) and in Isshin-Ryu Karate.

In the sequence prior to Tunney throwing the right to the body Corbett uses something similar to a wing block from Wing Chun and is in position to parry.

When Corbett is demonstrating the aggressive clinch which includes some holding and hitting going right to the body to jaw several times- he first breaks his opponents Kuzushi upsetting his balance which makes the follow up possible.

I see a lot of martial arts related techniques in this old style of boxing which really makes me curious because I have heard about links between the two styles before.

Makes for a fascinating study

From Edmund Price's Manual from 1867
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Vertical Punch

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


Uppercut
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]



In Dempsey's Championship Fighting the author discusses the vertical punch and the treatment of the upppercut here seems totally modern.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Arka is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2009, 05:52 PM   #66
Seamus
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 12,855
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jim Corbett/Gene Tunney Sparring Story

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Corbett v Johnson sparring is out there,I have seen it ,but if I told you where to find it I would have to kill you.
ps .You don't have pm.
Yes, I do.

please use it, friend.
Seamus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2009, 07:48 PM   #67
HomicideHenry
Bareknuckle Brawler
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: The Buckeye State
Posts: 1,024
vCash: 1061
Default Re: Jim Corbett/Gene Tunney Sparring Story

His style was tricky, bizarre, almost slight of hand. He threw what was known as a cork screw punch quite often in that demonstration/sparring session. Looks strange and uneducated at times, sloppy even, but effective. Its hard for me to believe when looking at some of these films, that the guys were so great as their records show---but then again it was a different time, and people picked shots, were methodical about it, than they are now, where punches are wasted for no reason.
HomicideHenry is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2009, 07:30 AM   #68
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 23,354
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jim Corbett/Gene Tunney Sparring Story

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
To be fair to Mendoza a lot of fights of that era were billed as exhibitions for legal reasons. This makes it verry hard to establish exactly what Corbetts true record was.
So in the absence of hard truth what should we do?
Go with what we are sure of ?
Or go with what may have happened?
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2009, 07:32 AM   #69
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 23,354
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jim Corbett/Gene Tunney Sparring Story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Yes, I do.

please use it, friend.
If I had it you would have it too
ps I read somewhere that Johnson sparring with Firpo was filmed.
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2009, 10:57 AM   #70
GPater11093
Barry
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 19,025
vCash: 836
Default Re: Jim Corbett/Gene Tunney Sparring Story

mcvey how did johnons sparring with Firpo go
GPater11093 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2009, 01:47 PM   #71
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 23,354
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jim Corbett/Gene Tunney Sparring Story

Quote:
Originally Posted by GPater11093 View Post
mcvey how did johnons sparring with Firpo go
Well,according to that shrinking violet Johnson ,Firpo was totally outclassed,in actual fact he may have been ,because Firpo for all his strength and power ,was woefully lacking in the fundamentals.
You might have shown him a few moves
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2009, 04:34 PM   #72
GPater11093
Barry
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 19,025
vCash: 836
Default Re: Jim Corbett/Gene Tunney Sparring Story

mcvey that aint saying much. Firpo aint exactly a syilist
GPater11093 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2009, 04:49 PM   #73
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,771
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jim Corbett/Gene Tunney Sparring Story

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
So in the absence of hard truth what should we do?
Go with what we are sure of ?
Or go with what may have happened?
Acepting that we dont know would be a good start.

A lot of John L Sullivan's "exhibitions" have been changed to fights in the light of research by Adam Pollack and others.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2009, 04:51 PM   #74
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,771
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jim Corbett/Gene Tunney Sparring Story

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Well,according to that shrinking violet Johnson ,Firpo was totally outclassed,in actual fact he may have been ,because Firpo for all his strength and power ,was woefully lacking in the fundamentals.
You might have shown him a few moves
It was not just Johnson who said it other sources have coroborated it.

It seems that Johnson did embaras Firpo in sparring.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2009, 05:40 PM   #75
Minotauro
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: London
Posts: 2,495
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Jim Corbett/Gene Tunney Sparring Story

Good read a lot of interesting posts.
Minotauro is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump






All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2015