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Old 09-04-2007, 03:43 PM   #1
KTFO
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Default Henry Armstrong's reign as Welterweight-Champion

Henry Armstrong,World Welterweight Champion 1938-1940,defended his title 18(!) times, lost his title to Fritzie Zivic.
Armstrong tried to regain the title but Zivic beat him again. Zivic lost the title to Freddie Cochrane (63-31) in 1941. Cochrane lost it to Marty Servo (45-2-2) in 1946 who vacated the belt a few months later.
Sugar Ray Robinson was the next Welter-Champ.

The questions are: Why didn't Armstrong try to regain the title? Was Armstrong mentally shot after the bouts against Zivic? Would Armstrong beat Cochrane or Servo? Would Armstrong have an exciting trilogy against Robinson for the Welter-crown?
Discuss.
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Old 09-04-2007, 03:56 PM   #2
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Default Re: Henry Armstrong's reign as Welterweight-Champion

I don't think that there's any dount that Armstrong, even in the twilight of his career, would have been able to defeat Cochrane, had he secured a title shot. And, there was a point in 1944 where he was still highly rated by the Ring Magazine. Still, his tendency, post reign, to drop fights against some of his biggest opponents ( e.g. Beau Jack, Sugar Ray Robinson, etc.) meant that he wasn't in a position where the champions had to defend against him in order to gain legitimacy.
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Old 09-04-2007, 04:09 PM   #3
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Default Re: Henry Armstrong's reign as Welterweight-Champion

Quote:
Originally Posted by KTFO
Henry Armstrong,World Welterweight Champion 1938-1940,defended his title 18(!) times, lost his title to Fritzie Zivic.
Armstrong tried to regain the title but Zivic beat him again. Zivic lost the title to Freddie Cochrane (63-31) in 1941. Cochrane lost it to Marty Servo (45-2-2) in 1946 who vacated the belt a few months later.
Sugar Ray Robinson was the next Welter-Champ.

The questions are: Why didn't Armstrong try to regain the title? Was Armstrong mentally shot after the bouts against Zivic? Would Armstrong beat Cochrane or Servo? Would Armstrong have an exciting trilogy against Robinson for the Welter-crown?
Discuss.
Armstrong was a candle that burned twice as bright and half as long.

He had an incredible but short career and was washed up young.
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Old 09-04-2007, 04:12 PM   #4
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Default Re: Henry Armstrong's reign as Welterweight-Champion

Probably tired from defending his title 5 times in 22 days.
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Old 09-04-2007, 04:21 PM   #5
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Default Re: Henry Armstrong's reign as Welterweight-Champion

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I don't think that there's any dount that Armstrong, even in the twilight of his career, would have been able to defeat Cochrane, had he secured a title shot. And, there was a point in 1944 where he was still highly rated by the Ring Magazine. Still, his tendency, post reign, to drop fights against some of his biggest opponents ( e.g. Beau Jack, Sugar Ray Robinson, etc.) meant that he wasn't in a position where the champions had to defend against him in order to gain legitimacy.


After his loss to Zivic in 1941 he continued boxing until 1945. He even won another rematch with Zivic in 1942,but no title-bout. Sure he lost then to Robinson in 1943 by UD,but nevertheless I think Armstrong could've been more according to his style.
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Old 09-04-2007, 04:26 PM   #6
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Default Re: Henry Armstrong's reign as Welterweight-Champion

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Probably tired from defending his title 5 times in 22 days.


Yeh,those were the days.
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Old 09-04-2007, 04:47 PM   #7
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Default Re: Henry Armstrong's reign as Welterweight-Champion

Also after Feddie Red won the title from Zivic, yeah Armstrong would have won. Red went into the army, and did not defend the title for the period of the war effort. How can Armstrong regain the title with the champ in the army in WW2?? And not defended it during the war period??
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Old 09-05-2007, 05:26 AM   #8
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Default Re: Henry Armstrong's reign as Welterweight-Champion

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Red went into the army, and did not defend the title for the period of the war effort. How can Armstrong regain the title with the champ in the army in WW2?? And not defended it during the war period??




Ok,would he/his style be able to win a rematch against Robinson?
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Old 09-05-2007, 05:43 AM   #9
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Default Re: Henry Armstrong's reign as Welterweight-Champion

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Originally Posted by KTFO



Ok,would he/his style be able to win a rematch against Robinson?
No, Robinson idolised Armstrong and reportedly went easy on him in their fight. A rematch would yield the same result - a win for Robinson. Any fighter would need to be at his absolute best to stand a chance against a young Robinson and that even goes for the great Armstrong.
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Old 09-05-2007, 06:09 AM   #10
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Default Re: Henry Armstrong's reign as Welterweight-Champion

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor
Armstrong was a candle that burned twice as bright and half as long.

He had an incredible but short career and was washed up young.
Great call.
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Old 09-05-2007, 06:19 AM   #11
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Default Re: Henry Armstrong's reign as Welterweight-Champion

Swarming style doesn't age well. Almost all swarmers are on the downslide by late 20s.
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Old 09-05-2007, 06:23 AM   #12
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Default Re: Henry Armstrong's reign as Welterweight-Champion

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Originally Posted by KTFO

Ok,would he/his style be able to win a rematch against Robinson?
Peak for peak he's probably to small.

At the time you're talking about, impossible. The fight between SRR and Armstrong was not competitive. Ray basically carried him. Ray Robinson and ringsiders agree that Armstrong came out for the first round in a manner suggesting he felt he could win and that that lasted all of 100 seconds.

Some remember a hostile crowd that booed what turned into an exhibition, others remember a sypmathetic Garden approving of Robinson's gentle handling of the New York favourite.

Last edited by Sinew; 06-01-2006 at 05:06 PM.
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