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Old 06-20-2009, 03:43 AM   #16
Bokaj
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Default Re: Douglas vs Tyson among great HW perfomances?

There are some things written so far I don't agree with:

1. Douglas just using a one-two. Even though he did use the one-two with great effect he also uses hooks and uppercuts and it seems his use of them confuses Tyson who's used to a more one-dimensional approach from opponents.

2. Douglas just standing firm behind a strong jab and tying up on the inside. If you watch the first 2-3 rounds Douglas shows a tremendous lateral movement which prevents Tyson from getting his combinations off and getting into the groove. Easily the best movement I've ever seen from a 220+ lbs guy. He also outfights Tyson on the inside - it seems like Tyson initiates at least as many clinches as Douglas, if not more. I also think that this movement and inside work is the main reason that Tyson's punch output is so low. He just isn't given the time to get his punches off. After a couple of rounds Douglas stops moving, but then he's already taken the edge off of Tyson and control of the fight.

3. Tyson looking sluggish and out of shape: Again, watch the first 2-3 rounds. Tyson shows good head movement and speed, and he slips and ducks, but Douglas' great work just doesn't allow him to get into his rythm. Tyson also don't look particularly gassed in the later rounds even though he has taken a battering. He looks relatively strong.
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Old 06-20-2009, 03:51 AM   #17
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Default Re: Douglas vs Tyson among great HW perfomances?

tyson was fcked from shagging half the japenese female population

TYson after the spinks fight in 88 was still a great fighter. he still had the great speed to go with the power. but on that night in tokyo, he was not there at all (except for a 10 second period at the end of the 8th)
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Old 06-20-2009, 03:56 AM   #18
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Default Re: Douglas vs Tyson among great HW perfomances?

The Douglas who fought that night would have given any heavyweight in history trouble - though not beat any of the greats. Didnt like on Tyson documentary when he said Bruno and Carl The Truth were better than Douglas.
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Old 06-20-2009, 03:59 AM   #19
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Default Re: Douglas vs Tyson among great HW perfomances?

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Originally Posted by sidthehat View Post
The Douglas who fought that night would have given any heavyweight in history trouble - though not beat any of the greats. Didnt like on Tyson documentary when he said Bruno and Carl The Truth were better than Douglas.
The Bruno of 1989 could have defeated Tyson in Tokyo on that night IMO.
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Old 06-20-2009, 03:59 AM   #20
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Default Re: Douglas vs Tyson among great HW perfomances?

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tyson was fcked from shagging half the japenese female population

TYson after the spinks fight in 88 was still a great fighter. he still had the great speed to go with the power. but on that night in tokyo, he was not there at all (except for a 10 second period at the end of the 8th)

dont get me wrong, i believe that the douglas of that night would of give 86-88 tyson trouble for a few rounds before being ko'd

but on feb 10 1990 tyson was just throwing bombs while sleep walking
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Old 06-20-2009, 04:17 AM   #21
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Default Re: Douglas vs Tyson among great HW perfomances?

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The Bruno of 1989 could have defeated Tyson in Tokyo on that night IMO.
You really think? I dont think Bruno could have convinced himself he could have won. I know Tyson shagged everything in Japan beforehand but Douglas still had to earn his respect in there and boss the fight in a way I couldnt ever seeing Bruno doing.
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Old 06-20-2009, 07:24 AM   #22
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Default Re: Douglas vs Tyson among great HW perfomances?

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That too.


I'm not particularly convinced that that version of Douglas would have a strong chance against the 86-88 period given how few times Mike was hit clean and hurt during that period. (only Tony Tucker 1st round and James Smith last round readily come to mind).
That's one line of thinking.


The other is that Douglas,at his best,always had Tyson's number stylistically.
Yeah, fuk it, i'll go with the former line of thought!!
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Old 06-20-2009, 08:07 AM   #23
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Default Re: Douglas vs Tyson among great HW perfomances?

The ability of someone to fight above their limit or to achieve what we thought was impossible is incredible motivation for many I think Douglas fought well above himself in the fight sand it should be rated in the top five performances of all time it is this sort of performance that makes boxing such a great sport.
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Old 06-20-2009, 08:19 AM   #24
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Default Re: Douglas vs Tyson among great HW perfomances?

Douglas on that night fought like a near perfect Heavyweight. I do not buy into this bullshit that Tyson was a shadow. He was a bully who got exposed. Tyson was young, strong and had ample opportunity during the fight to get his shit together and KO Douglas if he was good enough. This fight was only 18 months after his lauded display against Spinks. The fact is that Douglas was 100% motivated and Tyson was 20% motivated. He made the same mistake many great champions have, he thought he could do the basics in training then just turn up and Douglas would eventually quit. Yes his cornermen and seconds were incompetent arse lickers but Tyson was still the original Tyson. Its easy today with hindgsight to say you saw it coming but it was such a shocker cause noone did. Douglas does not get the credit he deserves. The bully got schooled.
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Old 06-20-2009, 08:30 AM   #25
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Default Re: Douglas vs Tyson among great HW perfomances?

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Yeah, Tyson looked like he was sleepwalking. Even before the bell rang he looked disinterested. And even so Douglas couldn't avoid getting knocked down and was saved by the bell.

Holyfield's performance deserves more praise.
I'm not so sure about that! When you compare Douglas & Holyfield, they are like chalk & cheese. Not only did people think Douglas had no chance, but they no way saw the performance he put in coming!

Holyfield started as a big underdog against Tyson, but people knew he would come to win & give his all even if it was not enough!

Yes, Tyson was not prepared for Douglas, but that does not diminish Douglas' showing. He fought the fight of his life & would never ever be the same again! It's like it was impossible for him to be the same fighter again - he performaned his heart out!

In my opinion, Douglas-Tyson is not onyl the biggest upset in Boxing, but it could well be the biggest upset in sports history!
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Old 06-20-2009, 09:57 AM   #26
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3. Tyson looking sluggish and out of shape: Again, watch the first 2-3 rounds. Tyson shows good head movement and speed, and he slips and ducks, but Douglas' great work just doesn't allow him to get into his rythm. Tyson also don't look particularly gassed in the later rounds even though he has taken a battering. He looks relatively strong.
I don't think it was as much a matter of Tyson being out of shape (he wasn't fat) as his mind wasn't in the ring that night. Even during introductions he wasn't pacing back and forth with the same intensity he showed in every fight prior. Plus, reports out of the Tyson camp all indicated that he was horrible and was knocked down by Greg Page in sparring hard.

Douglas still put in the performance of his life, and had he treated every fight like this he would of been a serious player in the late 80's and 90's rather than a bit of a one hit wonder. I agree with your point of him showing the best movement ever from a 220 lb plus guy.
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Old 06-20-2009, 09:59 AM   #27
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In my opinion, Douglas-Tyson is not onyl the biggest upset in Boxing, but it could well be the biggest upset in sports history!
Douglas certainly pulled off the bigger upset, but the Tyson that fought Holy post prison was better than the one in Tokyo.
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Old 06-20-2009, 09:59 AM   #28
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Default Re: Douglas vs Tyson among great HW perfomances?

Let's not forget that Tyson wasn't the first heavyweight champion to train on the dancefloor and in the bedroom. A lot of Ali's fights- against better opposition than Douglas- featured an undertrained and unfocused Ali.
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Old 06-20-2009, 10:10 AM   #29
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Default Re: Douglas vs Tyson among great HW perfomances?

Douglas had the tools. He had movement something most of the other big man that Tyson faced didnt do to well. He was also big, could punch in combination and had a good jab. I dont think Tyson was at his best that night, but Douglas was, and even beating Tyson not at his best when he was champion was a monumental achievement. Douglas punched back right from the get go. He wasnt getting hit so it allowed him to take it to Tyson.
Tyson on the otherhand was looking like his post prison fighting style loading up with one punch. No jab, no combinations, very little upper body movement and after four rounds he was lost. He was moving but he didnt start moving until Douglas landed, and that was a huge difference.
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Old 06-20-2009, 10:11 AM   #30
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Default Re: Douglas vs Tyson among great HW perfomances?

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Douglas certainly pulled off the bigger upset, but the Tyson that fought Holy post prison was better than the one in Tokyo.
noooooooooooo waaaaaaaaaaaaaay
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