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Old 06-20-2009, 10:13 AM   #31
lefthook31
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Default Re: Douglas vs Tyson among great HW perfomances?

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I'm not so sure about that! When you compare Douglas & Holyfield, they are like chalk & cheese. Not only did people think Douglas had no chance, but they no way saw the performance he put in coming!

Holyfield started as a big underdog against Tyson, but people knew he would come to win & give his all even if it was not enough!

Yes, Tyson was not prepared for Douglas, but that does not diminish Douglas' showing. He fought the fight of his life & would never ever be the same again! It's like it was impossible for him to be the same fighter again - he performaned his heart out!

In my opinion, Douglas-Tyson is not onyl the biggest upset in Boxing, but it could well be, the biggest upset in sports history!
I agree, and its unfortunate it took so much unrelated things to bring the best out of Douglas. There was nothing else that could do it again. He always showed flashes of how good he could really be, but that was the one and only night it completely came together for him.
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Old 06-20-2009, 10:16 AM   #32
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Default Re: Douglas vs Tyson among great HW perfomances?

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I don't think it was as much a matter of Tyson being out of shape (he wasn't fat) as his mind wasn't in the ring that night. Even during introductions he wasn't pacing back and forth with the same intensity he showed in every fight prior. Plus, reports out of the Tyson camp all indicated that he was horrible and was knocked down by Greg Page in sparring hard.
Sure, he didn't have the greatest focus, but that doesn't mean he couldn't turn it on to some degree when he felt the need. Very few are totally focussed for every fight, but a pro can adjust to the circumstances.

By the way, he wasn't knocked down that hard by Page. He bounced straight back up and didn't look hurt at all.
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Old 06-20-2009, 10:22 AM   #33
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Default Re: Douglas vs Tyson among great HW perfomances?

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Sure, he didn't have the greatest focus, but that doesn't mean he couldn't turn it on to some degree when he felt the need. Very few are totally focussed for every fight, but a pro can adjust to the circumstances.

By the way, he wasn't knocked down that hard by Page. He bounced straight back up and didn't look hurt at all.
Tyson in his latest documentary openly admits to not training for the fight, but he also admits that he didnt think much of Douglas as a fighter at the time. He compared him to Tucker, but worse. Arrogance is a lot of fighters downfalls.
Im sure Tyson didnt prepare for some of his other fights either after leaving Rooney, but he also didnt expect to be in a tough fight.
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Old 06-20-2009, 10:28 AM   #34
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Sure, he didn't have the greatest focus, but that doesn't mean he couldn't turn it on to some degree when he felt the need. Very few are totally focussed for every fight, but a pro can adjust to the circumstances.
There's a difference between purely overlooking someone from the start, and staying up all night with hookers after your training camp is a joke.
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Old 06-20-2009, 10:40 AM   #35
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Default Re: Douglas vs Tyson among great HW perfomances?

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There's a difference between purely overlooking someone from the start, and staying up all night with hookers after your training camp is a joke.
While he for sure wasn't perfectly prepared, one should always be careful with believing stories like that. There's too many people with too much reason too exagerrate and make up things.
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Old 06-20-2009, 10:43 AM   #36
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While he for sure wasn't perfectly prepared, one should always be careful with believing stories like that. There's too many people with too much reason too exagerrate and make up things.
True, but I think with Tyson's history that the rumors of him staying up all night is a very good possibility.
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Old 06-20-2009, 10:43 AM   #37
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Default Re: Douglas vs Tyson among great HW perfomances?

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Originally Posted by lefthook31 View Post
Tyson in his latest documentary openly admits to not training for the fight, but he also admits that he didnt think much of Douglas as a fighter at the time. He compared him to Tucker, but worse. Arrogance is a lot of fighters downfalls.
Im sure Tyson didnt prepare for some of his other fights either after leaving Rooney, but he also didnt expect to be in a tough fight.
So he "openly admitted" to preparing poorly for a fight that he very embarassingly lost? What a shocker.
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Old 06-20-2009, 01:04 PM   #38
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Default Re: Douglas vs Tyson among great HW perfomances?

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Tyson was clearly not 100% (or even 80%) but he was still on that night one of the top 20 heavyweights of all time and he was made to look like a complete pile of excrement by Buster Douglas, who hadn't had a REALLY impressive fight in his life before then. In sense of totally transcending his career (up until then painfully mediocre) and changing the course of heavyweight history against all expectations, Douglas's performance has a profoundity arguably unmatched in the history of the sport.

Also: forget everything people say about Tony Tucker, James Tillis, Mitch Green (or whichever coke-head they prefer) creating the blueprint to beat Mike Tyson. It was Buster Douglas who worked out that the key wasn't to stick-and-move, but to stand firm and fire out a heavy jab to control the action on the outside then hold on tight on the inside. He essentially put together the best parts of the Pinklon Thomas attempt (which had some strongpoints) and the Bonecrusher attempt (which showed how not to be beaten up) which happened to match the talents that Buster Douglas had: strength and a great jab.

Would Buster Douglas on that night stand a chance against any heavyweight ever? No. Would he stand a very good chance against any version of Tyson? Yes and that in itself is amazing, especially considering almost everything James Douglas did before and after that fight.

Good post. I think some fighters due to styles have other fighters numbers. And while I think the best version of Tyson beats the best version of Douglas, Douglas has a style that would likely always cause Tyson problems and obviously a less than a 100% version of that Tyson lost when they fought. Essentially Douglas stood up to Tyson and beat the living crap out of him. And full marks to Tyson for being able to take one hell of a beating before going down, much like he did in the Lewis fight.
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Old 06-20-2009, 03:37 PM   #39
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Default Re: Douglas vs Tyson among great HW perfomances?

Checked the fight out.Very good performance from Buster.This was a high quality heavyweight bout.I was surprised by Douglas' mobility and workrate.Tyson's timing and balance were way off. He was passive and not slipping Douglas' punches. He wasn't throwing any combinations and missing with his counters and then walking into Douglas' own shots.

I think Douglas could easily have gone the distance with Mike even at his best.

Last edited by Arka; 09-13-2009 at 08:26 PM. Reason: sentence didn't make sense
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Old 06-20-2009, 03:52 PM   #40
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Default Re: Douglas vs Tyson among great HW perfomances?

My reason and intelect tell me that this fight was as much about what Tyson didnt do as what Douglas did do.

My reason and intelect also tell me that Douglas did not go from being a second rater to a legend killer overnight and then back again.

And yet Douglas looked absolutely awsome that night.

If I had been in a coma for 20 years and the first thing you showed me was that fight I would think I was looking at the curent ATG in action.

I would add that it is one of my favourite fights of all time and however many times I watch it I want to punch the air when Douglas wins.
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Old 06-20-2009, 04:03 PM   #41
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I think Douglas could easily have gone the distance with Mike even at his best.
He barely lasted to the 9th against the shit Tyson that he did fight, how do you suppose he "easily" goes the distance against the far better Tyson that took out Spinks, Holmes, Tubbs?
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Old 06-20-2009, 04:14 PM   #42
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Default Re: Douglas vs Tyson among great HW perfomances?

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Originally Posted by Muchmoore View Post
He barely lasted to the 9th against the shit Tyson that he did fight, how do you suppose he "easily" goes the distance against the far better Tyson that took out Spinks, Holmes, Tubbs?
Not win. Gone the distance.
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Old 09-13-2009, 07:37 PM   #43
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Default Re: Douglas vs Tyson among great HW perfomances?

Any fighter who could jab and move would of beat tyson that night . Ray Leonard even said during the fight that when tyson is fighting a guy who has a huge height and reach advantage , hand speed and good jab and good lateral movement . tyson needs to work his way in with his jab and take away douglas movement with bodys shots instead of walking straight in throwing one punch . tyson never once did this except in round 3 where he hit douglas to the body and slowed douglas down a bit . for some reason he didnt keep it up . the tyson who fought bruno was just as bad as the tyson who fought douglas the differnce is bruno didnt have douglas speed , movement and boxing skills to take advantage of tysons walk straight in and throw one punch at a time . it was douglas style and boxing skills that beat tyson . but that tyson showed up to the tucker , thomas , tubbs , biggs fight he would of got beat aswell .
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Old 09-13-2009, 07:52 PM   #44
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Default Re: Douglas vs Tyson among great HW perfomances?

Bokaj thank you for this thread. It's a top 5 HW performance no doubt. Douglas was brilliant and only was a hair overconfident during the late stages which caused him to get knocked down (Yet, people use this to play on the Tyson had heart because he dropped him with an uppercut on the inside but openly say he was obviously not the same fighter but invincible in 1988. Yadda yadda).

I will say this. A 1990 Tokyo Douglas beats prime Tyson. I'm sick of how much this victory gets discredited. Douglas didn't just beat Tyson he whooped his ass! Huge difference. Also, the only way he loses if he gets the same scorecards he got in Tokyo. That was ridiculous. In that scenario he gets robbed in a decision. Of course against a prime Tyson, Tyson isn't getting KTFO. I predict a Douglas SD instead.

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He barely lasted to the 9th against the shit Tyson that he did fight, how do you suppose he "easily" goes the distance against the far better Tyson that took out Spinks, Holmes, Tubbs?
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Old 09-13-2009, 11:57 PM   #45
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Default Re: Douglas vs Tyson among great HW perfomances?

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Douglas on that night fought like a near perfect Heavyweight. I do not buy into this bullshit that Tyson was a shadow. He was a bully who got exposed. Tyson was young, strong and had ample opportunity during the fight to get his shit together and KO Douglas if he was good enough. This fight was only 18 months after his lauded display against Spinks. The fact is that Douglas was 100% motivated and Tyson was 20% motivated. He made the same mistake many great champions have, he thought he could do the basics in training then just turn up and Douglas would eventually quit. Yes his cornermen and seconds were incompetent arse lickers but Tyson was still the original Tyson. Its easy today with hindgsight to say you saw it coming but it was such a shocker cause noone did. Douglas does not get the credit he deserves. The bully got schooled.
Indeed.... it proved to be a matter of motivation & Mike Tyson was not motivated. So when tyson went up against someone with skills, belief, courage.... someone without fear.... he folded. James Douglas was very motivated & it showed.

That being said... if douglas had fought a 1986 or 87 version of tyson the fight would have been much closer.
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