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Old 06-25-2009, 12:31 PM   #46
GPater11093
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Default Re: Who is higher on your ATG p4p list, Ali or Pep? Why?

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo View Post
I agree,

Today's fighters could benefit from making more appearances and keeping more active, even if the quality of the opposition isn't that great. Two modern day fighters who I think were throw backs to old school champs were Julio Cesar Chavez and James Toney. At times during their title reigns, they each fought sometimes as many as 5 or 6 times per year, and often took on lesser opponents in between title bouts.
exactly.

Even if they do fight not so great opponents im sure if you look on peps record he fought a ranked contender more often thn Ali.

The best way to get better at a sport is to actually play the sport and boxing aint no difference. The more you box the better you get.
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Old 06-25-2009, 12:35 PM   #47
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Default Re: Who is higher on your ATG p4p list, Ali or Pep? Why?

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Originally Posted by GPater11093 View Post
exactly.

Even if they do fight not so great opponents im sure if you look on peps record he fought a ranked contender more often thn Ali.
Haven't you been following the thread? He didn't. Ali had a better record against currently ranked opposition.
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Old 06-25-2009, 12:36 PM   #48
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Default Re: Who is higher on your ATG p4p list, Ali or Pep? Why?

but he ofught more ranked contenders

i think he owuld have fought more every year than ali
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Old 06-25-2009, 12:58 PM   #49
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Default Re: Who is higher on your ATG p4p list, Ali or Pep? Why?

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Haven't you been following the thread? He didn't. Ali had a better record against currently ranked opposition.
Perhaps, but that isn't the point that Gpater and myself are trying to make in our little side conversation. Although, it does sort of stray off topic a bit, the general point is that fighters today should be keeping more active, even if it means taking on a few journeyman or even tomato cans in between big fights. Chavez and Toney did it, and I think for that reason it helped in insuring that they both had long and successful careers.
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Old 06-25-2009, 02:45 PM   #50
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Default Re: Who is higher on your ATG p4p list, Ali or Pep? Why?

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo View Post
Perhaps, but that isn't the point that Gpater and myself are trying to make in our little side conversation. Although, it does sort of stray off topic a bit, the general point is that fighters today should be keeping more active, even if it means taking on a few journeyman or even tomato cans in between big fights. Chavez and Toney did it, and I think for that reason it helped in insuring that they both had long and successful careers.
GPater said that Pep in all probablity fought more ranked opponents. That was the particular thing I responded to, since Hhascup already had produced stats that showed the opposite to be true.

Personally I think a bit much is made out of beating innumerable tomato cans and club fighters. We all know how, in modern times, guys like Foreman, Morrison, Seldon and Ruddock have put together fine stats over nobodies, but have very different numbers when they step up against ranked contenders. I bet they could have put together some hell of records (stats-wise) if they had stayed at the lower levels.
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Old 06-25-2009, 02:48 PM   #51
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Default Re: Who is higher on your ATG p4p list, Ali or Pep? Why?

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but he ofught more ranked contenders
No, he fought more guys that were ranked at one time or another, but Ali fought more currently ranked opponents and had a better record against them. Guess which I put more stock in.
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Old 06-25-2009, 03:06 PM   #52
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Default Re: Who is higher on your ATG p4p list, Ali or Pep? Why?

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Personally I think a bit much is made out of beating innumerable tomato cans and club fighters. We all know how, in modern times, guys like Foreman, Morrison, Seldon and Ruddock have put together fine stats over nobodies, but have very different numbers when they step up against ranked contenders. I bet they could have put together some hell of records (stats-wise) if they had stayed at the lower levels.

This isn't about putting together fine stats and purposely padding records. This about fighters keeping active. If a man fights two quality opponents per year, that's fine. But, frankly I think he'd stay sharper if he fought two or three easy fights IN ADDITION to those better men. As I have already stated, Chavez and Toney did very well at keeping active even between championship fights.
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Old 06-25-2009, 03:16 PM   #53
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Default Re: Who is higher on your ATG p4p list, Ali or Pep? Why?

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This isn't about putting together fine stats and purposely padding records. This about fighters keeping active. If a man fights two quality opponents per year, that's fine. But, frankly I think he'd stay sharper if he fought two or three easy fights IN ADDITION to those better men. As I have already stated, Chavez and Toney did very well at keeping active even between championship fights.
Yeah, sure. You have a point there.
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Old 06-25-2009, 04:23 PM   #54
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Default Re: Who is higher on your ATG p4p list, Ali or Pep? Why?

Bokaj that was the point i was making.

sorry i misread the stats.
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Old 03-08-2011, 10:41 AM   #55
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Default Re: Who is higher on your ATG p4p list, Ali or Pep? Why?

this is as a good question, as i'd rank them close together, but people saying it's ali and not even close really need to do some research.

1) saying things like 'ali was just the better boxer' is inspecific, debatable, and shouldn't even be the main focus on a list that ranks fighters based primarily on achievements/resume.

2) ali's resume is not miles better than pep's. his top wins are great, but the amount of times i hear 'shavers, lyle, young etc.' is exhausting... pep's resume is filled with far more versatile fighters than earnie shavers and ron lyle!

3) pep's resume may be 'padded' with keep-busy fights, but in between he recorded plenty of great wins. don't think just because he had a long unbeaten streak, they must have been tomato cans.

i'd separate them by a place or two, probably in the lower reaches of a top ten. this is a close call, neither is obviously greater than the other.
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Old 03-08-2011, 10:45 AM   #56
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Default Re: Who is higher on your ATG p4p list, Ali or Pep? Why?

Ali all day
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Old 03-08-2011, 10:48 AM   #57
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Default Re: Who is higher on your ATG p4p list, Ali or Pep? Why?

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Muhammad Ali, beat better fighters and has the better resume in only 60 fights. He also did far more for boxing and possessed more skill.
How I see it too.
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Old 03-08-2011, 02:33 PM   #58
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Default Re: Who is higher on your ATG p4p list, Ali or Pep? Why?

I'm a big Pep fan, but I would've said Ali. Most likely just because I am very aware of the competition level he faced. Can't say the same for Pep.

Rock and SuzieQ make very good points here.
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Old 03-08-2011, 02:45 PM   #59
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Default Re: Who is higher on your ATG p4p list, Ali or Pep? Why?

Ali without question. Better resume imo. I def don't agree that Ali was more skilled than pep though. I have seen lists where pep was rated the number 3 p4p all time and the same goes with Ali. I guess it is a matter of opinion. Can't go wrong with either fighter.
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Old 03-08-2011, 02:56 PM   #60
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Default Re: Who is higher on your ATG p4p list, Ali or Pep? Why?

Same mold. Both are amongst the like 15 fighters who could fill the last three places in the Top10.
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