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View Poll Results: Could Jack Knock Out Liston?
Hell Yes 52 68.42%
Nope 24 31.58%
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Old 06-28-2009, 11:53 PM   #16
Hydraulix
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Default Re: Could Jack Dempsey Knock Out Sonny Liston?

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Originally Posted by TheGreatA View Post
And Dempsey got knocked out in one by Fireman Flynn.
I heard that Dempsey hadn't eaten in 4 days when he fought that fight. But I don't know how true that is.
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Old 06-29-2009, 12:12 AM   #17
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Default Re: Could Jack Dempsey Knock Out Sonny Liston?

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Originally Posted by TheGreatA View Post
And Dempsey got knocked out in one by Fireman Flynn.
I remember Ali standing over Liston yelling at him to get up and fight in a bout that ended in one round too.
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Old 06-29-2009, 04:31 AM   #18
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Default Re: Could Jack Dempsey Knock Out Sonny Liston?

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Originally Posted by OuterDrake View Post
Dempsey would have to train for Liston's era.

Dempsey was a brawler, he would have gotten out witted with Liston.
Well , I feel Dempsey was a better all round ring mechanic than Liston he was quicker ,with his hands and feet, more elusive with his body and head ,and threw shorter punches ,I dont see your view at all here.
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Old 06-29-2009, 06:12 AM   #19
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Default Re: Could Jack Dempsey Knock Out Sonny Liston?

Hell yes.

Whether he actually would be able to land those shots is another issue, but definitely he could knock out Liston given the chance.
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Old 06-29-2009, 07:49 AM   #20
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Default Re: Could Jack Dempsey Knock Out Sonny Liston?

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Originally Posted by Hydraulix View Post
I heard that Dempsey hadn't eaten in 4 days when he fought that fight. But I don't know how true that is.
Not true according to the newspaper articles which were posted here earlier.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longhhorn71 View Post
I remember Ali standing over Liston yelling at him to get up and fight in a bout that ended in one round too.
I'd rather be KO'd by arguably the greatest heavyweight of all time than a journeyman.

The point is that if you're going to start digging up Liston's early career losses (his 8th bout against Marty Marshall) then it's fair game to point out Dempsey's struggles as well.
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Old 06-29-2009, 01:06 PM   #21
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Default Re: Could Jack Dempsey Knock Out Sonny Liston?

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
Dempsey is a serious issue for anybody willing to stand in front of him.

I dont think that anybody in history would be much better than even money against him in this scenario.
no doubting that. But it is a bad stylisitc match up for Dempsey. The swarmer vs the slugger

(obviously both guys are very skilled but at the top level that is there styles)
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Old 06-29-2009, 01:45 PM   #22
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Default Re: Could Jack Dempsey Knock Out Sonny Liston?

He COULD KO Liston, by all means, but unless he gets past the jab I think he'll be ****ed up. Stopped on cuts perhaps. If it gets wild I think he can Firpo his way to hurting Liston, honestly. If Liston stays away and jabs jabs jabs and throws straight punches, Dempsey might be poleaxed or perhaps he'll spirit himself past the jabs and get to Liston.

I can't really say. If it's an old Dempsey, I'd favor Liston massively. If it's a young, prime, HUNGRY Dempsey, I wouldn't bet. If I had to, I'd always favor Liston. Stylistically this isn't good for Jack

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Originally Posted by Muchmoore View Post
Unlikely. Dempsey would make things interesting as he is one of the greatest punchers ever, but Liston's jab would dominate and I'd favor Liston in a slugfest agaisnt a guy 20 pounds lighter. Dempsey definitly could KO Liston though, he's one of the three best punchers ever along with Louis, and Tyson. I think Liston by clear but tough UD.
Pretty much my thoughts.
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Old 06-29-2009, 02:27 PM   #23
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Default Re: Could Jack Dempsey Knock Out Sonny Liston?

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Originally Posted by Bummy Davis View Post
I rate Dempsey higher than Liston but head to head it would not be an easy fight , then again it would not be an easy fight for Sonny.Dempsey had power and fast hands. This one is a KNockout for sure but Dempsey could score a KO
Bummy, why dont you have an avatar for yourself ? Just curious.
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Old 06-29-2009, 03:14 PM   #24
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Default Re: Could Jack Dempsey Knock Out Sonny Liston?

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Originally Posted by Hydraulix View Post
I heard that Dempsey hadn't eaten in 4 days when he fought that fight. But I don't know how true that is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatA View Post
Not true according to the newspaper articles which were posted here earlier.

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Thanx for that. Bert Sugar was the one who said that Dempsey hadn't eaten in 4 days, which is why he was so easily knocked out.
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Old 06-29-2009, 03:28 PM   #25
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Default Re: Could Jack Dempsey Knock Out Sonny Liston?

For me, the crucial thing is that Dempsey never defeated an opponent that was even close to ATG standard in convincing fashion. The best man he beat was Sharkey, and that was under somewhat controversial circumstances after being outboxed. The guys that Dempsey fought were in general quite crude compared to the opponents Liston made his name on. I mean, compare Firpo to Williams. Williams was never known for any outstanding skill, but compared to Firpo he comes off as a prime Duran or even better.

We know that Liston easily defeated an opponent that wasn't too dissimilar to Dempsey, but Dempsey never got tested by anything like Liston. It certainly takes a leap off faith to say that Dempsey could defeat that caliber of opponent.
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Old 06-29-2009, 03:31 PM   #26
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Default Re: Could Jack Dempsey Knock Out Sonny Liston?

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Originally Posted by Hydraulix View Post
Thanx for that. Bert Sugar was the one who said that Dempsey hadn't eaten in 4 days, which is why he was so easily knocked out.
A perfect illustration as to why what the "experts" says about Dempsey should be taken with a grain of salt. It also undermines Sugar's standing as a historian. What legit historian would go public with a claim like that when it's contradicted in contemprorary newspaper reports that are easy to find?
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Old 06-29-2009, 03:55 PM   #27
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Default Re: Could Jack Dempsey Knock Out Sonny Liston?

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Originally Posted by Hank View Post
Liston was more hype than anything else, Dempsey would tear him up. Marty Marshall, a light heavy, broke Liston' s jaw in one fight, (win over liston) floored him in another. (loss to Liston)
Liston beat the best around (mostly in convincing fashion) until Ali arrived on the scene. Dempsey ducked everything black and didn't even fight the best white contender of the early 20's (Greb). Dempsey made his name on Willard, Liston made his on Patterson - who without a doubt in my mind would beat that same Willard to a pulp.

As for embarassing losses, Dempsey looks far worse than Liston. He had quite a few draws, lost his series to Meehan and was, as stated, KO'd in 1 by Flynn.
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Old 06-29-2009, 05:16 PM   #28
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Default Re: Could Jack Dempsey Knock Out Sonny Liston?

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Originally Posted by GPater11093 View Post
no doubting that. But it is a bad stylisitc match up for Dempsey. The swarmer vs the slugger

(obviously both guys are very skilled but at the top level that is there styles)
I would say that you are half right.

Dempsey is not a slugger in the conventional sense or even necisarily a come forward fighter in the conventional sense.

Dempsey used movment to outflank larger oponents and definitely had a reverse gear when he chose to use it. He could play the counterpuncher as well as the attacker and often did. Dempsey played the chameleon somtimes switching between an attacking aproach and a mobile counterpunching aproach.

These factors combined with his hand speed advantage over Liston make this match up a lot more complex than most people on this site believe.

Ultimately however Dempsey single greatest weakness was that he could get caught coming in and was liable to be going in the wrong direction if it happened. This almost cost him the match against Luis Firpo a fighter who he was otherwise dominating. To that extent the dynamic of the swarmer vs the slugger could be his undoing.
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Old 06-29-2009, 05:18 PM   #29
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Default Re: Could Jack Dempsey Knock Out Sonny Liston?

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Originally Posted by Bokaj View Post
We know that Liston easily defeated an opponent that wasn't too dissimilar to Dempsey, but Dempsey never got tested by anything like Liston. It certainly takes a leap off faith to say that Dempsey could defeat that caliber of opponent.
By that logic Larry Holmes would loose to every all time great and most lineal champions.
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Old 06-29-2009, 05:21 PM   #30
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Default Re: Could Jack Dempsey Knock Out Sonny Liston?

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Originally Posted by Bokaj View Post
Dempsey made his name on Willard, Liston made his on Patterson - who without a doubt in my mind would beat that same Willard to a pulp.
What exactly makes you so sure that Patterson would beat Willard to a pulp?

We are talking about a 245 lb power puncher with an all time chin against a blown up light heavyweight with a questionable chin under a rule set that you have not specified.

If you dont have serious doubts about Patterson winning this never mind winning easily then you are being a bit niaeve.
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