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Old 07-05-2009, 12:12 PM   #1
GPater11093
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Default Basilio vs Ortega

this is a great s****.

It happens right at the end of Basilio's career after the Fullmer losses. He shows that after the Fullmer loses he becomes a better technical boxer IMO and uses more variety in his punches. However he dosent have the same relentless aggresion and fights in spurts.

Ortega was a tough Mexican who fought everyone at the weight and going by the commentary was always in a close exciting fight and beat Gavilan. He was very tall and awkward with a granite chin and a busy workrate.

The fight was made at 155lbs, Ortega was 149lbs while Basilio was 159lbs

The fight was a classic as Ortega made Basilio work in the early stages but Basilio still fought in spurts. It was very close the rounds were almost in seperable. By the midway point the fight was really warming up and soon Basilio started to put the pressure on like the old days and he really drove through gritting his teeth and turning back the clock.

This fight was better than Gatti-Ward. It really is a forgotten classic, i recommend this to everyone.

This is Basilios last great fight.
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Old 07-05-2009, 09:57 PM   #2
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Default Re: Basilio vs Ortega

I was always a fan of Basilio's. I remember watching the Ortega fight and hoping he could pull it out. It was close with Carmen finishing the stronger of the two. Basilio came in at 159 to Ortega's 149 and was penalized by the New York State Athletic Commission for going above 155. I believe in Gaspar's next fight he defeated then welterweight champion Benny Paret by decision. Carmen's next bout was a couple of months later in Syracuse when he beat Don Jordan by decision. I thought he looked sharper in this one than against Ortega. He was using a right uppercut very effectively in this one. Then when Carmen got the title shot with Paul Pender he was doing well in the first two rounds. He clocked Pender with a good shot in the second round and had him in trouble. During that round he hurt his left shoulder and wasn't able to throw his best punch, the left hook, for the rest of the fight. I know Carmen was past his prime but I still wonder if he hadn't hurt his shoulder if with two good arms he might have pulled it off.

They don't have fighters out there today like Carmen Basilio. He was a real crowd pleaser who always put up a good fight for the fans.
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Old 07-05-2009, 10:13 PM   #3
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Default Re: Basilio vs Ortega

Than later a guy named Paul just beats Basilio up pretty bad.
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Old 07-05-2009, 10:20 PM   #4
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Default Re: Basilio vs Ortega

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Originally Posted by GPater11093 View Post
He shows that after the Fullmer loses he becomes a better technical boxer IMO and uses more variety in his punches.
He also had an impressive win over ex-welter champ Don Jordan around this same time. Although Basilio was clearly past his prime and visibly slower than he used to be, he showed what an underrated boxer he was by outboxing the boxer Jordan.
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Old 07-05-2009, 10:30 PM   #5
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Default Re: Basilio vs Ortega

Wonder if Basilio would have beating Fullmer had he adopt to boxing him instand of slugging it out?
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Old 07-06-2009, 02:46 AM   #6
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Default Re: Basilio vs Ortega

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Wonder if Basilio would have beating Fullmer had he adopt to boxing him instand of slugging it out?
I doubt it. As Basilio admitted himself, his biggest problem with Fullmer was his sheer unpredictability. Besides, Fullmer generally did well against boxers; he liked guys who gave him room to unload his wild swings. Most of his losses were to fighters who took it to him and got him on the inside, ie: Tiger, Turner, Lausse.
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Old 07-06-2009, 02:51 PM   #7
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Default Re: Basilio vs Ortega

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Originally Posted by My2Sense View Post
He also had an impressive win over ex-welter champ Don Jordan around this same time. Although Basilio was clearly past his prime and visibly slower than he used to be, he showed what an underrated boxer he was by outboxing the boxer Jordan.
yeh that fight really showed his skills a very good perfromance by Basilio.

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Originally Posted by Dempsey1238 View Post
Wonder if Basilio would have beating Fullmer had he adopt to boxing him instand of slugging it out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by My2Sense View Post
I doubt it. As Basilio admitted himself, his biggest problem with Fullmer was his sheer unpredictability. Besides, Fullmer generally did well against boxers; he liked guys who gave him room to unload his wild swings. Most of his losses were to fighters who took it to him and got him on the inside, ie: Tiger, Turner, Lausse.
I think it was the fact that Fullmer was just so strong for him and Basilio liked being aggresive
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Old 07-06-2009, 07:52 PM   #8
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Default Re: Basilio vs Ortega

Basilio was always in good fights, the Ortega bout was indeed a doozy. Ortega was a real crowd pleaser too in the mould of Basilio, threw a ton of leather in every round and picked his punches very well and was a dedicated body puncher. Watched his first bout vs Benny Paret, the return vs Floro Fernandez and his title go vs Emile Griffith a few weeks ago and those were some great fights, never in a dull fight was Gaspar. On a seperate note both he and Jose Medel look like long lost brothers, just saw a pic of both of them together and the resemblance is striking right down to the haircut.
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Old 07-06-2009, 08:00 PM   #9
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Default Re: Basilio vs Ortega

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Originally Posted by My2Sense View Post
I doubt it. As Basilio admitted himself, his biggest problem with Fullmer was his sheer unpredictability. Besides, Fullmer generally did well against boxers; he liked guys who gave him room to unload his wild swings. Most of his losses were to fighters who took it to him and got him on the inside, ie: Tiger, Turner, Lausse.

Basilio try to run Fullmer down, Fullmer out box Basilio and force a stoppage in both fights while Carman try to bully his way in.

It might have been a stinker, but had Carman try to box, he might have goting a points win, But Fullmer is bigger. So that might be a problem, Also feel this is not the Basilio from the Demarco fights, A middleweight Basilio with the freshness from the Demarco fights might have beating Fullmer. Most of Carman's fights were wars Galvian to Robinson, to Ortega, plus Jordan, I have a good number of his fights, and almost evey one of them were just drag out wars.

Hell even the Chuck Davy fight was other good s****.
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Old 07-06-2009, 10:34 PM   #10
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Default Re: Basilio vs Ortega

As much of a fan as I was of Carmen Basilio I think he was just too small to handle a big strong middleweight like Fullmer. Gene Fullmer as far as I'm concerned would by today's standards be considered a super middleweight; too small for lightheavyweight and too big for middleweight. In his last fights with Tiger he was having difficulty making 160 which weakened him from having to sweat it off for the weighins.As a middleweight Carmen was a blown-up welterweight which slowed him down from his days of terrorizing the 147 lb. division. Basilio was at his best at 147 without question. It all reminds me of Duran as he moved up in weight.
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Old 07-07-2009, 06:02 PM   #11
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Default Re: Basilio vs Ortega

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Originally Posted by Raging B(_)LL View Post
Basilio was always in good fights, the Ortega bout was indeed a doozy. Ortega was a real crowd pleaser too in the mould of Basilio, threw a ton of leather in every round and picked his punches very well and was a dedicated body puncher. Watched his first bout vs Benny Paret, the return vs Floro Fernandez and his title go vs Emile Griffith a few weeks ago and those were some great fights, never in a dull fight was Gaspar. On a seperate note both he and Jose Medel look like long lost brothers, just saw a pic of both of them together and the resemblance is striking right down to the haircut.
yup he was exciting

are you sure Ortega fought Emile Griffith for a title i watched it yesterday and Emile was in his 16th fight against him. He boxed amazingly well btw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dempsey1238 View Post
Basilio try to run Fullmer down, Fullmer out box Basilio and force a stoppage in both fights while Carman try to bully his way in.

It might have been a stinker, but had Carman try to box, he might have goting a points win, But Fullmer is bigger. So that might be a problem, Also feel this is not the Basilio from the Demarco fights, A middleweight Basilio with the freshness from the Demarco fights might have beating Fullmer. Most of Carman's fights were wars Galvian to Robinson, to Ortega, plus Jordan, I have a good number of his fights, and almost evey one of them were just drag out wars.

Hell even the Chuck Davy fight was other good s****.
some great s****s he was in
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