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View Poll Results: Joe Louis vs Rocky Marciano
Joe Louis by KO 10 28.57%
Rocky Marciano by KO 16 45.71%
Joe Louis by Decision 9 25.71%
Rocky Marciano by Decision 0 0%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-09-2009, 06:28 PM   #61
he grant
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis Beats Rocky Marciano --- Convince Me

Jim Broughton: I think you said it perfect, respectful and accurate about Rocky ... a great 5'11' ish, 187 pound, short armed fighter ... all world power, heart, stamina and chin ... however benefited from a perfect storm of events and circumstances or his career easily goes another route ...
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Old 07-09-2009, 07:49 PM   #62
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis Beats Rocky Marciano --- Convince Me

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Originally Posted by Ted Spoon View Post
Marciano's unbreakable will would go along way in breaking him down. When Louis was at his very best he was an unrivalled trash compactor; targets that marched into his space got crunched up.

There is of course that special element of Marciano that deters him from the Godoy's of the ring, the stylistic quirks that would most certainly help him rattle the Bomber, but is it not so that this fight just strikes you as 'the one who does the most damage first wins?'.

At first and last glance, there is that stirring feeling that the economical destructiveness of Louis would haunt Rocky to his doom, but inbetween the sureness it's hard to cast aside a man whose perseverance to fit into a fight was insane. Ted Spoon is not just talking about marching forward and never saying die, Rocky would stoop his head and swing his arms to an incalculable rhythm, experimenting like all the true greats, presenting new barriers in spilt second intervals.

Then there is that last feeling again; Louis, with his arms in nice n' tight, sticking a cold jab and measuring the oncoming warrior with packages of high-impact hell.

Louis; probably, mid-late round TKO.

You are so good.
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Old 07-09-2009, 07:51 PM   #63
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis Beats Rocky Marciano --- Convince Me

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While we are quoting what fighters said, here was Moore's bottom line on Marciano ..."When people ask me who was the best I ever fought , I say Rocky because that is what THEY want to hear. I was in my forties when we fought...It wasn't, it was Charley Burley. I simply give them what they want to hear."

Now let's hear the usual suspects spin this one ...
Archie Moore also said in the mid 1980s "No man past, present, or future could slug it out with Marciano and come out alive."


Do you agree with this statement?


Moore is one of the biggest bullshiters of all time. I wouldnt take his word with a grain of salt
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Old 07-09-2009, 07:55 PM   #64
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis Beats Rocky Marciano --- Convince Me

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You are correct Sir,and he still marked Rocky up with what was left of his jab.
Actually I saw Joe Louis throw some powerful left hook in the first 5 rounds of marciano fight, that marciano took flush. Left hooks that would have decked any other fighter in the world
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Old 07-09-2009, 08:59 PM   #65
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis Beats Rocky Marciano --- Convince Me

Ted: What's in that Spoon ? (Just joshing, old playmates from CBZ ...

SQ: The last fight Louis dropped a name with one left hook was Buddy Baer in 1942, 9 years earlier ...
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Old 07-09-2009, 09:25 PM   #66
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis Beats Rocky Marciano --- Convince Me

I'll take the higher skilled athlete - Louis by close decision.
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Old 07-09-2009, 10:05 PM   #67
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis Beats Rocky Marciano --- Convince Me

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SQ: The last fight Louis dropped a name with one left hook was Buddy Baer in 1942, 9 years earlier ...

Are you sure about that? I seem to recall Joe Louis dropping # 2 rated and BBC recognized Heavyweight Champion of the world Lee Savold with one left hook. The same Savold who had fought every puncher from here to china from 1942-1952 yet was only knocked out twice during these years(Violent Ray and Louis both in RING magazine top 50 punchers all time) proving his rock like chin. I suppose dumping a highly rated fighter of this magnitude doesnt hold much water in your pond...but it does for me.


But please....correct me if I am wrong.

Last edited by SuzieQ49; 07-09-2009 at 10:42 PM.
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Old 07-09-2009, 10:26 PM   #68
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis Beats Rocky Marciano --- Convince Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Spoon View Post
Marciano's unbreakable will would go along way in breaking him down. When Louis was at his very best he was an unrivalled trash compactor; targets that marched into his space got crunched up.

There is of course that special element of Marciano that deters him from the Godoy's of the ring, the stylistic quirks that would most certainly help him rattle the Bomber, but is it not so that this fight just strikes you as 'the one who does the most damage first wins?'.

At first and last glance, there is that stirring feeling that the economical destructiveness of Louis would haunt Rocky to his doom, but inbetween the sureness it's hard to cast aside a man whose perseverance to fit into a fight was insane. Ted Spoon is not just talking about marching forward and never saying die, Rocky would stoop his head and swing his arms to an incalculable rhythm, experimenting like all the true greats, presenting new barriers in spilt second intervals.

Then there is that last feeling again; Louis, with his arms in nice n' tight, sticking a cold jab and measuring the oncoming warrior with packages of high-impact hell.

Louis; probably, mid-late round TKO.
Stand up and take a bow, Ted Spoon.
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Old 07-10-2009, 05:11 AM   #69
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis Beats Rocky Marciano --- Convince Me

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Originally Posted by TheGreatA View Post
may have even been even on the scorecards at that point,
He was down on the official cards, but I forget the exact scoring up until the time of the knockout. One card I believe was 4-2-1 in Marciano's favour, the others I can't recall at the moment.
Louis was still competitve, although clearly not winning.
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Old 07-10-2009, 05:17 AM   #70
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis Beats Rocky Marciano --- Convince Me

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Originally Posted by he grant View Post
Jim Broughton: I think you said it perfect, respectful and accurate about Rocky ... a great 5'11' ish, 187 pound, short armed fighter ... all world power, heart, stamina and chin ... however benefited from a perfect storm of events and circumstances or his career easily goes another route ...
Marciano was a great little guy who made the most of what he had, and probably overachieved to a large extent. He's one of the best examples of will over skill. (Although he was undoubtedly skillful at what he did.)
That's partly why I'm such a big fan of his.
He was a long way from being an unbeatable monster, although he remained unbeaten, obviously.
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Old 07-10-2009, 05:44 AM   #71
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis Beats Rocky Marciano --- Convince Me

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
Actually I saw Joe Louis throw some powerful left hook in the first 5 rounds of marciano fight, that marciano took flush. Left hooks that would have decked any other fighter in the world
How come Louis only had one stoppage win in his last four fights before Marciano? And that over a nearly 35 year old Savold ?
Face it, Louis was still a world class boxer ,but he was a mere facsimile of what he had been. He was no longer a precise executioner.
He was a 37 year old boxer with a good jab and ring smarts.
His legs ,speed, right hand, combinations , were gone .His power was greatly diminished,and the ability to connect with what he had left was diminished also.
The mileage on his clock was formidable ,he had been a pro for 17 years ,engaged in 78 fights ,plus all those exhibitions.
Louis, after the War was going backwards,and by the end of 1951, when he fought Marciano ,he was at the end of his road.
Marciano did what young studs are supposed to do , he defeated the old Stag,and looked good doing it ,he went further than that ,after the fight he accepted his win with class and commiserated with Louis with compassion and respect.
Ruby Goldstein the referee said that early in the fight he could see Louis was not himself, there was no snap to his shots and his judgement of distance was off.
The fact that Louis was able to still defeat contenders in his twilight years,should not lull anyone in to thinking he was still the" Brown Bomber", rather it should high light ,just how exceptional he was in his prime.

Last edited by mcvey; 07-10-2009 at 06:29 AM.
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Old 07-10-2009, 06:13 AM   #72
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis Beats Rocky Marciano --- Convince Me

He did not defeat the even more shopworn Savold with one left hook. He pounded on the trial horse, who had 28 loses coming into their bout and who was 6-4-2 over his previous 12 fights going back to 1947. This is exactly my point about the time period and competition level. If Lee was legit at number 2, how weak was the division ? Does anyone rate Savold in their top seventy five or 100 heavyweights ever ?
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Old 07-10-2009, 06:17 AM   #73
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis Beats Rocky Marciano --- Convince Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
Are you sure about that? I seem to recall Joe Louis dropping # 2 rated and BBC recognized Heavyweight Champion of the world Lee Savold with one left hook. The same Savold who had fought every puncher from here to china from 1942-1952 yet was only knocked out twice during these years(Violent Ray and Louis both in RING magazine top 50 punchers all time) proving his rock like chin. I suppose dumping a highly rated fighter of this magnitude doesnt hold much water in your pond...but it does for me.


But please....correct me if I am wrong.
Savold was on the way down he was nearly 35,he beat a limited Bruce Wood**** in the UK for the B B B C recognized Title ,that never got off the ground. The BBC is the British Broadcasting Company, similar to your NBC ,I imagine.
A J Liebling talking about Lee Savold ,prior to the Louis fight.
"I had seen him fight twice in the winter of 1946 ,and I knew he wasnt much."
"An old third rater like Savold, I knew ,doesnt improve with 5 more years on him"
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Old 07-10-2009, 06:31 AM   #74
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis Beats Rocky Marciano --- Convince Me

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Originally Posted by he grant View Post
He did not defeat the even more shopworn Savold with one left hook. He pounded on the trial horse, who had 28 loses coming into their bout and who was 6-4-2 over his previous 12 fights going back to 1947. This is exactly my point about the time period and competition level. If Lee was legit at number 2, how weak was the division ? Does anyone rate Savold in their top seventy five or 100 heavyweights ever ?
Joey Maxim, the Light Heavy Champ was no 3.
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Old 07-10-2009, 07:03 AM   #75
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Default Re: Prime Joe Louis Beats Rocky Marciano --- Convince Me

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Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Savold was on the way down he was nearly 35,he beat a limited Bruce Wood**** in the UK for the B B B C recognized Title ,that never got off the ground. The BBC is the British Broadcasting Company, similar to your NBC ,I imagine.
I think it's more likely that was the British Board of Boxing Control Title.

Not the BBC.

The BBBC are the main boxing org here in the UK and have been since 1929.
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