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Old 07-09-2009, 05:35 PM   #16
Manos de Piedra
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Default Re: Ray Robinson .Vs. Roberto Duran @ 147.

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i think duran would win. peep this video if you like its nice!
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Old 07-09-2009, 05:42 PM   #17
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Default Re: Ray Robinson .Vs. Roberto Duran @ 147.

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I guess i let the mugging at the hands of Hearns dictate a little bit on my thinking. But then again that was 154, and Hearns was somewhat of a beast.
Duran was miles past his prime by the the time he fought hearns, the duran that beat leonard and palomino was a different beast
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Old 07-09-2009, 08:07 PM   #18
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Default Re: Ray Robinson .Vs. Roberto Duran @ 147.

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Duran was miles past his prime by the the time he fought hearns, the duran that beat leonard and palomino was a different beast

Yeah mate i agree totally, but the impression it left has a lasting effect on my head to head match ups despite my best efforts to ignore it.
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Old 07-09-2009, 08:10 PM   #19
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Default Re: Ray Robinson .Vs. Roberto Duran @ 147.

If Duran can consistently get inside and stay there against Robinson - or Robinson decides to humor him and let it happen - then he can win a close decision.

Any other way and Robinson gets a comfortable UD.
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Old 07-09-2009, 08:25 PM   #20
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Default Re: Ray Robinson .Vs. Roberto Duran @ 147.

SSR by a 15 round decision in a real war.
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Old 07-09-2009, 10:06 PM   #21
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Default Re: Ray Robinson .Vs. Roberto Duran @ 147.

I respect the natural strorm that the Montreal Duran was...and have debated this numerous times on the board. I'll just say this...besides fast hands and feet, how does Ray Leonard with 25 or so fights compare with a Ray Robinson? In terms of experience, power, and also being outright vicious finisher...(a 'stone killer' according to John Garfield)
Duran took Ray to school the first time, everyone knows this. Leonard was the wide eyed inexperienced wunderkind who thought he could engage with the beast, and beat him at his own game...MISTAKE.
But Leonard did have his moments and Duran certainly received his share of punishment in that fight. It was a brilliant, brutal fight with both giving very good accounts, with Duran's style prevailing. But Leonard was quoted as believing that Duran urinated blood for days after the fight in a SI article, and while I can somewhat understand the angle of Duran being the stronger inside fighter...In what fight was Robinson physically dominated at 147 lbs? It's a mute point. My question is... what type of punishment would Duran have to take to go hurl himself (with the ferocity he demonstrated in Montreal) into perhaps one of the most devastating, power punching welterweights (with great accuracy and combinations) who would venture into the middleweight ranks, and was capable of hurting and taking out 160 lbers with his power? It is akin to playing Russian roulette with three or four bullets in the chamber, rather than the one IMO.
I don't feel Duran (even the Montreal version) is capable of pushing a fight that aggressively against Ray Robinson for fifteen rounds.
Robinson by clear and comfortable decision against the Montreal Duran. With all due respect to Leonard, Ray Robinson was a completely different animal.
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Old 07-10-2009, 04:10 AM   #22
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Default Re: Ray Robinson .Vs. Roberto Duran @ 147.

I think Robinson would win clearly myself. He's a better fighter on the inside and off the back foot than Leonard.
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Old 07-10-2009, 05:02 AM   #23
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Default Re: Ray Robinson .Vs. Roberto Duran @ 147.

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Originally Posted by dpw417 View Post
I respect the natural strorm that the Montreal Duran was...and have debated this numerous times on the board. I'll just say this...besides fast hands and feet, how does Ray Leonard with 25 or so fights compare with a Ray Robinson? In terms of experience, power, and also being outright vicious finisher...(a 'stone killer' according to John Garfield)
Duran took Ray to school the first time, everyone knows this. Leonard was the wide eyed inexperienced wunderkind who thought he could engage with the beast, and beat him at his own game...MISTAKE.
But Leonard did have his moments and Duran certainly received his share of punishment in that fight. It was a brilliant, brutal fight with both giving very good accounts, with Duran's style prevailing. But Leonard was quoted as believing that Duran urinated blood for days after the fight in a SI article, and while I can somewhat understand the angle of Duran being the stronger inside fighter...In what fight was Robinson physically dominated at 147 lbs? It's a mute point. My question is... what type of punishment would Duran have to take to go hurl himself (with the ferocity he demonstrated in Montreal) into perhaps one of the most devastating, power punching welterweights (with great accuracy and combinations) who would venture into the middleweight ranks, and was capable of hurting and taking out 160 lbers with his power? It is akin to playing Russian roulette with three or four bullets in the chamber, rather than the one IMO.
I don't feel Duran (even the Montreal version) is capable of pushing a fight that aggressively against Ray Robinson for fifteen rounds.
Robinson by clear and comfortable decision against the Montreal Duran. With all due respect to Leonard, Ray Robinson was a completely different animal.
Excellent post.
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Old 07-10-2009, 05:27 AM   #24
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Default Re: Ray Robinson .Vs. Roberto Duran @ 147.

Robinson keels him. Well, by decision that is.
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Old 07-10-2009, 06:46 AM   #25
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Default Re: Ray Robinson .Vs. Roberto Duran @ 147.

roibinson wins ud in a great battle but it would be an obvious ud with robinson having the edge in most rounds
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Old 07-10-2009, 10:04 AM   #26
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Default Re: Ray Robinson .Vs. Roberto Duran @ 147.

Robinson by clear decision. Can't say much more than dpw said, but Leonard clearly lacked the experience Robinson had and it cost him in Montreal. Not much film, but I lean toward SRR being just a little better than SRL at 147 anyway.
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Old 07-10-2009, 10:23 AM   #27
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Default Re: Ray Robinson .Vs. Roberto Duran @ 147.

I think anyone who reckons Robinson could do a Hearns on a primed Duran knows very little about boxing. Casual fan at best.

Anyone who thinks Robinson would end up stopping Duran or beating him widely on points is overrating or underrating one of them.

Duran would have ran Robinson close or actually beaten him - I'd go with Robinson, but by a couple of rounds, and that's it.

Robinson, though considered the best ever by the majority of fans, and despite writing himself some ridiculous winning streaks in the '40s, was not unbeatable. It is visible to us on film that Duran, for a short period of time, was one of the premier welterweights - all time. You can say Leonard was inexperienced and less powerful than Robinson, but I'd bet that he was a tiny bit quicker and better defensively. Can you really imagine Robinson trading with Duran and coming off better? In some exchanges, but not consistently. Duran was fit and muscular at 147lbs, not overblown, while Robinson was vicious but skinny. And Duran's skills up close are perhaps the best ever. Robinson would likely be drawn into trade-offs in between his boxing, as that was his nature, and he'd get caught more than Leonard did. He'd fire back more too, so it'd be an even better fight.
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Old 07-10-2009, 11:37 AM   #28
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Default Re: Ray Robinson .Vs. Roberto Duran @ 147.

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Originally Posted by Manassa View Post
I think anyone who reckons Robinson could do a Hearns on a primed Duran knows very little about boxing. Casual fan at best.

Anyone who thinks Robinson would end up stopping Duran or beating him widely on points is overrating or underrating one of them.

Duran would have ran Robinson close or actually beaten him - I'd go with Robinson, but by a couple of rounds, and that's it.

Robinson, though considered the best ever by the majority of fans, and despite writing himself some ridiculous winning streaks in the '40s, was not unbeatable. It is visible to us on film that Duran, for a short period of time, was one of the premier welterweights - all time. You can say Leonard was inexperienced and less powerful than Robinson, but I'd bet that he was a tiny bit quicker and better defensively. Can you really imagine Robinson trading with Duran and coming off better? In some exchanges, but not consistently. Duran was fit and muscular at 147lbs, not overblown, while Robinson was vicious but skinny. And Duran's skills up close are perhaps the best ever. Robinson would likely be drawn into trade-offs in between his boxing, as that was his nature, and he'd get caught more than Leonard did. He'd fire back more too, so it'd be an even better fight.
Good post, i do think Robinson wins though personally.
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Old 07-10-2009, 11:41 AM   #29
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Default Re: Ray Robinson .Vs. Roberto Duran @ 147.

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Good post, i do think Robinson wins though personally.
Same.
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Old 07-10-2009, 11:42 AM   #30
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Default Re: Ray Robinson .Vs. Roberto Duran @ 147.

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Same.
Fancy posting in my Whittkaker thread? Sure you could make a good insight.
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