Lennox Lewis and his H2H ranking

[nostir a]

i have seen many people claim that lennox in H2H the best heavy ever, i would like to hear your opinions on that and where you rank him and why.

my opinion:

a way beat lennox other then being ali or holmes (see bellow), is to have a good jab and be able to have a high consistant work rate when in mid range throught the fight, as shown by mercer in the first 3 rounds (then gassed) and holyfield in spurts in the second fight (not enough and inconsistant), he wasnt the best defensivley when people opened up on him, and, his chin; underated, it wasnt glass, it was decent/good- , it wasnt enough to rely on like other greats.

ali and holmes beat him, lennox wasnt the hardest to his with the jab, as seen with mercer and holyfield 2, and these to have two of the best jabs in the business, although lennox has a excellent jab of his own, i think it is bellow the two mentioned here, and ali and holmes will be able to neutralize lennox's game, if its 15 rounds, i may fancy stoppage wins

prime holy (the 91/92 version) i fancy 50/50 with lennox, because he is much more agile, fitter and throws better combinations than the version lennox faced

FOTC frazier i think maybe has slightly better odds than 50/50, definitly a favourite if he can get past the first 5/6 rounds without getting hurt, lennox couldnt keep up with the pace nor the power of joes left hook, 12 rounds decision, 15 rounds stoppage if joe gets through 5/6 rounds, other than that 50/50

riddick bowe, i will get slated here, but he had a agressive jab and liked to fight on the inside, but also had a very good outside game (not quite as good as lennox's), he had in his prime tremendous stamina for a big guy, bit very hard, through great combinations and could take a punch, im probably the only one on here but i think bowe beats lennox.


overall i have very high H2H and legacy sense

where do you people rank him and how to you think he does against fellow greats H2H like louis, marciano, dempsey, foreman etc

[mr. magoo]

Originally Posted by nostir a

FOTC frazier i think maybe has slightly better odds than 50/50, definitly a favourite if he can get past the first 5/6 rounds without getting hurt, lennox couldnt keep up with the pace nor the power of joes left hook, 12 rounds decision, 15 rounds stoppage if joe gets through 5/6 rounds, other than that 50/50

I disagree with this assessment. While Joe Frazier should always be given a chance just on shear respect for the man alone, I think 50/50 is a tad generous. His best weapon - the left hook, was not a particularly useful tool against Lewis, who regularly ate left hookers right up, and the size difference would be colossal. Lewis's powerful right hand, uppercut and left jab would pose serious problems.. Again, I'd never count Joe out of any fight, but he would be a huge underdog.

[Flea Man]

I could see Larry getting badly hurt by Lennox that he can't recover just as much as I can see his speed advantage allowing him to get his jab off first.

[Azzer85]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

I could see Larry getting badly hurt by Lennox that he can't recover just as much as I can see his speed advantage allowing him to get his jab off first.

Interesting that both guys had a weakness for the right hand, however Holmes always got up to win. Well apart from when Tyson hit him.

I think Holmes had better footwork, LL was a bit flat footed at times.

[Webbiano]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

I could see Larry getting badly hurt by Lennox that he can't recover just as much as I can see his speed advantage allowing him to get his jab off first.

Totally agree Flea. Holmes was certainly vulnerable to the straight right hand. Although Holmes chin is among the very best and took the Shavers right better than almost anyone could, I see Lewis landing a hell of a lot more than Earnie did and when where talking about elite punchers (I believe Lewis was one of them) there's certainly a chance that Lennox could get him out of their, however it may be while Larry's still on his feet.

[Azzer85]

Originally Posted by Webbiano

Totally agree Flea. Holmes was certainly vulnerable to the straight right hand. Although Holmes chin is among the very best and took the Shavers right better than almost anyone could, I see Lewis landing a hell of a lot more than Earnie did and when where talking about elite punchers (I believe Lewis was one of them) there's certainly a chance that Lennox could get him out of their, however it may be while Larry's still on his feet.

Do you not feel there is an equal chance of Holmes landing one of his sneaky right hands as well?

[ushvinder]

lennox vs larry is a pick em really, 50/50.

[Webbiano]

Originally Posted by Azzer85

Do you not feel there is an equal chance of Holmes landing one of his sneaky right hands as well?

Yer, like I said, I agreed with Flea's post as a whole rather than just the point on Lewis right hand, however I didn't make that clear :P

Also just like to raise a point on your post. Do you think the fact that Holmes always got up to win was more due to the fact that he really never faced anyone that great in his prime years? Gets far too much love on this forum and in hindsight from every fight up to the Tyson fight would you really even expect him to tested that much? The way Holmes gets treated on the forum it's like he hardly ever lost a round throughout his career. A prime Tyson would eat Larry for breakfast and I don't think he even makes the top 5 H2H heavyweights.

[Azzer85]

Originally Posted by Webbiano

Yer, like I said, I agreed with Flea's post as a whole rather than just the point on Lewis right hand, however I didn't make that clear :P

Also just like to raise a point on your post. Do you think the fact that Holmes always got up to win was more due to the fact that he really never faced anyone that great in his prime years? Gets far too much love on this forum and in hindsight from every fight up to the Tyson fight would you really even expect him to tested that much? The way Holmes gets treated on the forum it's like he hardly ever lost a round throughout his career. A prime Tyson would eat Larry for breakfast and I don't think he even makes the top 5 H2H heavyweights.

I was wholly focusing on just the guys who dropped Holmes and Lewis. Id rather be known for getting knocked down by Shavers and getting up and winning the fight than being Kod while smiling at Rahman.

I actually did a thread on this years back, what would happen if Holmes/Lewis switched eras.

Holmes and Lewis have 4 mutual opponents to my knowledge. Tyson, Holyfield, Mercer and Mcall

[ushvinder]

Originally Posted by Webbiano

Yer, like I said, I agreed with Flea's post as a whole rather than just the point on Lewis right hand, however I didn't make that clear :P

Also just like to raise a point on your post. Do you think the fact that Holmes always got up to win was more due to the fact that he really never faced anyone that great in his prime years? Gets far too much love on this forum and in hindsight from every fight up to the Tyson fight would you really even expect him to tested that much? The way Holmes gets treated on the forum it's like he hardly ever lost a round throughout his career. A prime Tyson would eat Larry for breakfast and I don't think he even makes the top 5 H2H heavyweights.

Your actually right, holmes does get a little too much favourtism in head to head matchups, even though he never beat a great. What I noticed is that people also like to cherry pick which years was his prime. If people want to say he was past it against spinks, ok w/e. However, people want to dismiss his arguable loss to witherspoon too. So that leaves his prime to 1978-1982? Im sure if witherspoon fought him a year earlier, esb would have said holmes was washed up too. Holmes does get wierd h2h treatment.

I have him in the top 10 heavyweights but his resume is a bit weaker compared to other heavyweight atgs.

[KidDynamite]

Originally Posted by Webbiano

Yer, like I said, I agreed with Flea's post as a whole rather than just the point on Lewis right hand, however I didn't make that clear :P

Also just like to raise a point on your post. Do you think the fact that Holmes always got up to win was more due to the fact that he really never faced anyone that great in his prime years? Gets far too much love on this forum and in hindsight from every fight up to the Tyson fight would you really even expect him to tested that much? The way Holmes gets treated on the forum it's like he hardly ever lost a round throughout his career. A prime Tyson would eat Larry for breakfast and I don't think he even makes the top 5 H2H heavyweights.

Tyson is easily the most underrated heavyweight on this forum and is clearly #1 on the H2H list

Glass jawed jokes like Wlad are being ranked higher than the fastest (arguably), most explosive, hardest hitting and most elusive, iron chinned teenage phenom that transcended the sport of boxing

Holmes was just an Ali imitation fighting in a weaker era ... it can even be argued that he never even cleaned out the division during his reign ... he was never the undisputed champ and lost twice in a row to a light heavyweight in Michael Spinks

No human that ever lived could beat Iron Mike from 86-88 in a boxing ring ... simply surviving with him was a feat and accomplishment ...

[ushvinder]

Originally Posted by KidDynamite

Tyson is easily the most underrated heavyweight on this forum and is clearly #1 on the H2H list

Glass jawed jokes like Wlad are being ranked higher than the fastest (arguably), most explosive, hardest hitting and most elusive, iron chinned teenage phenom that transcended the sport of boxing

Holmes was just an Ali imitation fighting in a weaker era ... it can even be argued that he never even cleaned out the division during his reign ... he was never the undisputed champ and lost twice in a row to a light heavyweight in Michael Spinks

No human that ever lived could beat Iron Mike from 86-88 in a boxing ring ... simply surviving with him was a feat and accomplishment ...

Tyson is underrated actually, I would easily favour him over marciano and frazier. Wouldnt shock me at all if he stopped joe louis.

[KidDynamite]

Originally Posted by ushvinder

Tyson is underrated actually, I would easily favour him over marciano and frazier. Wouldnt shock me at all if he stopped joe louis.

Marciano is too small, Frazier would get TKOed early and Tyson is far too explosive and ferocious for Louis to handle ... Louis is known for getting up a lot in his career after being knocked down but a left hook from Iron Mike puts him away for good

Only a few guys have a chance against prime Tyson, especially the one from the Spinks fight

[ushvinder]

Originally Posted by KidDynamite

Marciano is too small, Frazier would get TKOed early and Tyson is far too explosive and ferocious for Louis to handle ... Louis is known for getting up a lot in his career after being knocked down but a left hook from Iron Mike puts him away for good

Only a few guys have a chance against prime Tyson, especially the one from the Spinks fight

Yeah but i think sonny liston would beat him, he would just stick his jab out all night and possibly stop him.

[Vanboxingfan]

TYson's not all unrated. If you have him, Ali, Holmes, and Lewis and Foreman in the top five, it's impossible to say who would win a round robin between them. My hunch says either Lewis or Ali, but it's very subjective. Because if you were making a top 10 list you can still put Listion and Louis on that list, as well as Wlad, and Frazier. it's also not out of the realm of possiblity that Tyson loses to a prime Holyfield.

Now if you didn't have Tyson in the top 10 H2h then yes, he'd be underrated.

I'm not sure if beating a light heavy like Spinks who basically had the shit scared out of him before he entered the ring is any indication of Tyson's ability. I remember watching that farce when it took place.