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Old 07-15-2009, 02:01 PM   #1
DINAMITA
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Default Would Hearns shut Whitaker out at 147?

My mate says Whitaker cannot be considered one of the greatest fighters ever because if he met a tall man who could keep him at range, he doesn't have anything he can do to counteract that - whereas guys like Robinson, Leonard and Duran do have that dimension.

He believes Tommy Hearns would win every round against Whitaker and stop him in the later rounds.

What do you think on 1981 Hearns v 1993 Whitaker?

I think Hearns would win on points widely, but not every single round, and I think this is more on account of him being a natural welterweight than anything deficient in Pea's game.

Has there ever been a tall, rangy lightweight that you could envisage outboxing Pea? The tallest guys who fought at lightweight that I can think of (Oscar, Arguello, etc) would not achieve this.
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:04 PM   #2
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Default Re: Would Hearns shut Whitaker out at 147?

I think Whitaker-Hearns could be quite close actually. I think you put Whitaker in there with a guy lacking top-line experience and Whitaker could give him real trouble. But Hearns should be favoured.
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:05 PM   #3
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Default Re: Would Hearns shut Whitaker out at 147?

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
I think Whitaker-Hearns could be quite close actually. I think you put Whitaker in there with a guy lacking top-line experience and Whitaker could give him real trouble. But Hearns should be favoured.
Thanks for the response mate.

What about the question:

Has there ever been a tall, rangy lightweight that you could envisage outboxing Pea?
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:05 PM   #4
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Default Re: Would Hearns shut Whitaker out at 147?

Nobody is outboxing Pea.
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:06 PM   #5
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Default Re: Would Hearns shut Whitaker out at 147?

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Nobody is outboxing Pea.
Has there ever been a tall, rangy lightweight that you could envisage outpointing Pea?
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:07 PM   #6
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Default Re: Would Hearns shut Whitaker out at 147?

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Originally Posted by DINAMITA View Post
My mate says Whitaker cannot be considered one of the greatest fighters ever because if he met a tall man who could keep him at range, he doesn't have anything he can do to counteract that - whereas guys like Robinson, Leonard and Duran do have that dimension.

He believes Tommy Hearns would win every round against Whitaker and stop him in the later rounds.

What do you think on 1981 Hearns v 1993 Whitaker?

I think Hearns would win on points widely, but not every single round, and I think this is more on account of him being a natural welterweight than anything deficient in Pea's game.

Has there ever been a tall, rangy lightweight that you could envisage outboxing Pea? The tallest guys who fought at lightweight that I can think of (Oscar, Arguello, etc) would not achieve this.
Hearns would handle Whitaker pretty easily. Whitaker would have to get inside those long arms. And he's not got the power to come forward and be aggressive, thus trying to close the distance constantly. He'd have to get inside, score, then get away again. And IMO, he'd always be leaving himself vulnerable when going to and from the inside. Whitaker's defense would need to be air-tight with a lot of feints and upperbody movement.
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:07 PM   #7
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Default Re: Would Hearns shut Whitaker out at 147?

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Originally Posted by DINAMITA View Post
Has there ever been a tall, rangy lightweight that you could envisage outpointing Pea?
Negative.
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:09 PM   #8
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Default Re: Would Hearns shut Whitaker out at 147?

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Negative.
I can't think of one either. Hence my point that the fact that a huge welter like Hearns could perhaps comprehensively defeat Whitaker does not mean Pea's game is seriously deficient.
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:14 PM   #9
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Default Re: Would Hearns shut Whitaker out at 147?

Pea would win 2 rounds at the most to be honest. He is just far too small and doesn't possess the reach to get inside someone with the range of Hearns. Not to mention Hearns circled to his left where as Pea primarily circled to his right. It would of been interesting to see how Pea would of responded from being taken out of his comfort zone.

No, there's never been a rangy lightweight who had the ability to outbox someone of the pedigree of Whitaker.
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:16 PM   #10
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Default Re: Would Hearns shut Whitaker out at 147?

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Originally Posted by DINAMITA View Post
I can't think of one either. Hence my point that the fact that a huge welter like Hearns could perhaps comprehensively defeat Whitaker does not mean Pea's game is seriously deficient.
I feel like there are so many unknowns in that fight -

1 - Heanrs is so accurate with great speed. How much can WW Whitaker make him miss?

2 - If he makes him miss a lot, what happens to Hearns, mentally? For some reason as soon as I read the match up I though of Sugar's comment on Kid G, "he made me afraid to do anything in there [for fear of being counterpunched]".

3 - If Hearns is being made to miss a lot coming forwards how is he at re-organising (at that point in his career) when Whitaker gets inside?

Because if Hearns is bad at ad******g and re-organising you know Whitaker is going to be brilliant at taking advantages of these things...it's to much to "assume" going Whitaker's way for anyone to pick him, probably, but you got to wonder.
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:19 PM   #11
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Default Re: Would Hearns shut Whitaker out at 147?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
I think Whitaker-Hearns could be quite close actually. I think you put Whitaker in there with a guy lacking top-line experience and Whitaker could give him real trouble. But Hearns should be favoured.
This is a good post.
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:20 PM   #12
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Default Re: Would Hearns shut Whitaker out at 147?

Joe Brown was a rangy lightweight wasn't he? Very impressive skills on the outside, but i'd still pick Whitaker.
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:21 PM   #13
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Default Re: Would Hearns shut Whitaker out at 147?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
I feel like there are so many unknowns in that fight -

1 - Heanrs is so accurate with great speed. How much can WW Whitaker make him miss?

2 - If he makes him miss a lot, what happens to Hearns, mentally? For some reason as soon as I read the match up I though of Sugar's comment on Kid G, "he made me afraid to do anything in there [for fear of being counterpunched]".

3 - If Hearns is being made to miss a lot coming forwards how is he at re-organising (at that point in his career) when Whitaker gets inside?

Because if Hearns is bad at ad******g and re-organising you know Whitaker is going to be brilliant at taking advantages of these things...it's to much to "assume" going Whitaker's way for anyone to pick him, probably, but you got to wonder.
True, but while Whitaker is occupied with making Hearns miss when is he ever getting an opportunity to score effectively???
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:25 PM   #14
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Default Re: Would Hearns shut Whitaker out at 147?

The question is what kind of chin dose Whitaker have? Whitaker's defense is sublime but at some point he is going to get hit by that right hand of Hearns. If anyone has a shot at beating a prime Whitaker hearns with his size advantage has as good of a shot as anyone. I'm not saying that he beats Whitaker. My reasoning is this. First of all to beat Whitaker other than scoreing a knock out. Which is Hearns best chance. I belive that you need to get Whitaker to come to you. I don't see Hearns being able to do this. The way to fight a southpaw like Whitaker is to lead with your right hand, as opposed to the left jab. Doing so will take away some of Hearns reach advantage. Whitaker should be fast enough to make Hearns miss with his lead right and counter him. Also in giving up his reach he gives up some of his power. Short of Hearns skoring a knockout I see Whitaker winning.
So to answer the original question no Hearns would not shut out Whitaker.
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Old 07-15-2009, 02:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: Would Hearns shut Whitaker out at 147?

It must be remembered that Whitaker's angles are something special. Fast hands don't always mean they can't be avoided.

I'm not making direct comparisons to this bout, but think Hopkins negating Calzaghe's handspeed, and Whitaker himself doing so to the bigger De La Hoya. As already mentioned, not a direct comparison, as Whitaker is largely on the inside here, and that's no place to be with Thomas Hearns. I'd have to pick Hearns here.
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