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Old 09-09-2007, 01:47 PM   #16
ChrisPontius
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Default Re: Anyone see Foreman/Cooper?

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo
Agreed,

fighters who fought with a lower center of gravity, and who moved or lunged forward were too susceptible to getting hooked and uppercutted by Foreman. Tyson, Frazier, Marciano, and Tua, are all bad matchups for Foreman.

On the otherhand, boxers like Ali, Holmes, Young, Holyfield, Ellis, and Lewis were the types of guys who George struggled with
How do you see Foreman vs Ellis going?
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Old 09-09-2007, 01:56 PM   #17
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Default Re: Anyone see Foreman/Cooper?

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Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
How do you see Foreman vs Ellis going?
I'm not sure if Ellis had the durability to survive Foreman's power, but I think he had the right style to at least give him trouble, perhaps even catch him on an off night. Foreman struggled with boxers, or at least ones who were decent boxers.

What's your take on it?
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Old 09-09-2007, 06:53 PM   #18
ChrisPontius
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Default Re: Anyone see Foreman/Cooper?

I pretty much agree with your analysis. He's got the style to trouble Foreman, but i think Foreman's power will get him through to a KO win. If Ellis was a bit more durable, i would be more confident. But even a skilled boxer is gonna have to take some licks along the road against Foreman.
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Old 09-10-2007, 12:25 PM   #19
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Default Re: Anyone see Foreman/Cooper?

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Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
I pretty much agree with your analysis. He's got the style to trouble Foreman, but i think Foreman's power will get him through to a KO win. If Ellis was a bit more durable, i would be more confident. But even a skilled boxer is gonna have to take some licks along the road against Foreman.
The two of you have produced an intriguing dialogue about Foreman/Ellis. I hope you won't mind if I chime in it.

Frazier had speed Foreman was lacking, and undersized Jimmy Young was very effective against George. Ellis was tremendous against the bull-strong Bonavena, doing much better against Ringo than Frazier or Ali. (I realize Muhammad took out Bonavena in round 15, but Ellis may well have turned the trick too, if he had 15 rounds to work with, instead of only 12.) Ellis was also a fast starter, so he wasn't likely to get caught early by Foreman. I suspect Ellis could prevail in much the same manner that Young did, although George easily had the power to take him out. Did Foreman have the necessary speed and endurance needed to reach Ellis often enough to carry it off though (as Frazier did)?
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Old 09-10-2007, 01:50 PM   #20
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Default Re: Anyone see Foreman/Cooper?

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Originally Posted by Duodenum
The two of you have produced an intriguing dialogue about Foreman/Ellis. I hope you won't mind if I chime in it.

Frazier had speed Foreman was lacking, and undersized Jimmy Young was very effective against George. Ellis was tremendous against the bull-strong Bonavena, doing much better against Ringo than Frazier or Ali. (I realize Muhammad took out Bonavena in round 15, but Ellis may well have turned the trick too, if he had 15 rounds to work with, instead of only 12.) Ellis was also a fast starter, so he wasn't likely to get caught early by Foreman. I suspect Ellis could prevail in much the same manner that Young did, although George easily had the power to take him out. Did Foreman have the necessary speed and endurance needed to reach Ellis often enough to carry it off though (as Frazier did)?
I suppose if Ellis could stay out of reach long enough to pick up points and take George into the later rounds, he might have been able to pull off a victory. He was afterall a very talented boxer, with good speed and indurance. I guess the real issue(s) are

A. Could he take Foreman's punches

B. Could Foreman land enough to make the difference.

I can't produce an answer to either of these questions.
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Old 09-10-2007, 02:03 PM   #21
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Default Re: Anyone see Foreman/Cooper?

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Originally Posted by achillesthegreat
Foreman is just so big, strong, powerful and durable (particularly early). Even the guys who beat Foreman, they never got an easy win.
Oddly enough, the boxer with the smoothest win over latter-day Foreman was Tommy Morrison, which shows just how good a boxer Morrison could be.
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Old 09-10-2007, 02:24 PM   #22
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Default Re: Anyone see Foreman/Cooper?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duodenum
The two of you have produced an intriguing dialogue about Foreman/Ellis. I hope you won't mind if I chime in it.
Of course not.

Quote:
Ellis was also a fast starter, so he wasn't likely to get caught early by Foreman.
That is indeed a must against Foreman. As long as he uses that fast start to avoid punch exchanges.

Quote:
I suspect Ellis could prevail in much the same manner that Young did, although George easily had the power to take him out. Did Foreman have the necessary speed and endurance needed to reach Ellis often enough to carry it off though (as Frazier did)?
I think the answer to that is quite clearly: no, Foreman does not have the endurance that Frazier had to wear a boxer like Ellis down.
This is why Frazier is such a great fighter at destroying "boxing" type of fighters. He has the speed and the stamina that will wear them eventually.

Foreman is gonna have to have one of those moments as he had against Norton. Which i think he has a good chance of. If not it's Young all over again indeed.
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Old 09-10-2007, 07:13 PM   #23
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Default Re: Anyone see Foreman/Cooper?

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I remember hearing that Foreman's camp had hookers sent to Cooper's room possibly with drugs before the fight. Cooper entered the ring a wreck. Not sure where this info came from. Maybe someone else can chime in on this.
I've heard the same story, just not that George had anything to do with it.

Supposedly Cooper was up for 72 hours straight on a crack binge and had a few woman in his room all night right before this fight.
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Old 09-11-2007, 01:16 AM   #24
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Default Re: Anyone see Foreman/Cooper?

The fight was a total joke. Don't even try to sell it. Cooper didn't even try. He wasn't even hurt actually. He decided just to quit after doing little, and taking little. He was obviously in his drug stage at that point. Not saying he woudl beat Foreman even at his best, but having seen him against Holyfield, Moorer, and Mercer, to compare that Cooper with the one that showed up against Foreman would be utterly ridiculous. They were two different people. I remember after the fight the commission was immediately talking about suspending his purse for non performance, and rightfully so.

As for Foreman - Jimmy Ellis, it woudl be a total joke of a fight. Foreman would knock Jimmy out with absolutely no problem. George was way too big and strong and imposing of a figure for Jimmy.
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