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Old 07-19-2009, 03:29 PM   #1
Bokaj
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Default How rare was Louis' mentality?

It seems that the kryptonite for powerful, lethal punchers often are that they are prone to frustration when the other fighter make them ineffectual. Liston, Tyson, (young) Foreman, Duran and perhaps Dempsey could be used as examples here. But this didn't seem to be the case with Louis. Against for example Conn and Walcott he kept his cool until the opportunity presented itself and then he took it. Which other fighters had this quality do you think?
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Old 07-19-2009, 04:09 PM   #2
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Default Re: How rare was Louis' mentality?

Ray Robinson
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Old 07-19-2009, 04:18 PM   #3
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Default Re: How rare was Louis' mentality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokaj View Post
It seems that the kryptonite for powerful, lethal punchers often are that they are prone to frustration when the other fighter make them ineffectual. Liston, Tyson, (young) Foreman, Duran and perhaps Dempsey could be used as examples here. But this didn't seem to be the case with Louis. Against for example Conn and Walcott he kept his cool until the opportunity presented itself and then he took it. Which other fighters had this quality do you think?

Nah. Louis was being out boxed and beaten on. It was unnecessary bravado from Conn and Walcott that cost them. Louis did not tactically change things to change the tides. These guys line right up in his big guns cross hairs.
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Old 07-19-2009, 04:24 PM   #4
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Default Re: How rare was Louis' mentality?

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Nah. Louis was being out boxed and beaten on. It was unnecessary bravado from Conn and Walcott that cost them. Louis did not tactically change things to change the tides. These guys line right up in his big guns cross hairs.
Exactly, Conn got carried away and tried to trade punches with Joe... never a good idea!

Louis was a very patient fighter, though - perhaps overly conservative, which led to him getting beat on some occasions when he could have just ran the guy over (Schmelling).
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Old 07-19-2009, 04:29 PM   #5
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Default Re: How rare was Louis' mentality?

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Nah. Louis was being out boxed and beaten on. It was unnecessary bravado from Conn and Walcott that cost them. Louis did not tactically change things to change the tides. These guys line right up in his big guns cross hairs.
Well, okay. But Louis never became flustered or got wild or reckless, even when things got quite desperate.
His ability to keep calm and collected at all times was quite astounding.

But I do agree with the post above that sometimes he could be a little too studious.
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Old 07-19-2009, 04:30 PM   #6
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Default Re: How rare was Louis' mentality?

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Nah. Louis was being out boxed and beaten on. It was unnecessary bravado from Conn and Walcott that cost them. Louis did not tactically change things to change the tides. These guys line right up in his big guns cross hairs.
That is not entirely fair.

Firstly it is debatable to what extent it was bravado and to what extent it was their luck giving out.

Secondly Louis in both cases was given a split second oportunity and took the oportunity when he was given it.

Liston, Foreman or Tyson might well have come unraveled one way or another by then in either case.
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Old 07-19-2009, 04:36 PM   #7
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Default Re: How rare was Louis' mentality?

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by itrymariti View Post
Exactly, Conn got carried away and tried to trade punches with Joe... never a good idea!
there are two schools of thought on the Conn fight.

Conn might have got careless but he was backed up against the ropes before he "decided to trade".

It might theoreticaly be that Louis just caught up with him.

Quote:
Louis was a very patient fighter, though - perhaps overly conservative, which led to him getting beat on some occasions when he could have just ran the guy over (Schmelling).
I don't think Louis could have beaten Schmeling by being more agressive.

I think he was basicaly out on his feet for much of the fight.

I think it is more a case that Schmeling could have finished it earlier had he so chosen.

Schmeling was basicaly happy to win by decision but when Louis hit him low he decided to conclude matters and took Louis out prety agresivley and decisively.
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Old 07-19-2009, 04:39 PM   #8
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Default Re: How rare was Louis' mentality?

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there are two schools of thought on the Conn fight.

Conn might have got careless but he was backed up against the ropes before he "decided to trade".

It might theoreticaly be that Louis just caught up with him.
It was the quick stutter-step forward before landing that crushing right hand that made the difference.
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Old 07-19-2009, 04:49 PM   #9
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Default Re: How rare was Louis' mentality?

The "Conn got optimistic and started to trade" story has begun getting its own life and seems to grow day by day. On ESB anyway.

The way i see it, Louis started closing the gap better and better the further the rounds went. While Conn was ahead, it's not like it was a shutout. 7-5 in rounds something. You can't run for the entire 15. Louis was crashing right hands home in the 12th already, and there was nothing Conn could do about it.
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Old 07-19-2009, 05:01 PM   #10
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Default Re: How rare was Louis' mentality?

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The "Conn got optimistic and started to trade" story has begun getting its own life and seems to grow day by day. On ESB anyway.

The way i see it, Louis started closing the gap better and better the further the rounds went. While Conn was ahead, it's not like it was a shutout. 7-5 in rounds something. You can't run for the entire 15. Louis was crashing right hands home in the 12th already, and there was nothing Conn could do about it.
Conns effort was magnificent and should not be overlooked.

Some things have to be said in Louis's defence however.

1. Louis could still have won the fight on the cards if he took the last two rounds (not implausible given how things were going)

2. Louis also had a chance to finish Conn in the 10th when Conn slipped and Louis backed off and let him get up.

3. Louis backed Conn against the ropes before he got "overconfidant".

4. It says a lot in a fighters favour if his critics have to focus on a fight that he won to denigrate him. That would not be necisary for a few great fighters.
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Old 07-19-2009, 11:15 PM   #11
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Default Re: How rare was Louis' mentality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius View Post
The "Conn got optimistic and started to trade" story has begun getting its own life and seems to grow day by day. On ESB anyway.

The way i see it, Louis started closing the gap better and better the further the rounds went. While Conn was ahead, it's not like it was a shutout. 7-5 in rounds something. You can't run for the entire 15. Louis was crashing right hands home in the 12th already, and there was nothing Conn could do about it.
Credit given where credit is due. The way it should be...Louis won.
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Old 07-19-2009, 11:26 PM   #12
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Default Re: How rare was Louis' mentality?

Felix Trinidad
Diego Corralles
Bob Foster
Azumah Nelson

all very cool heads.Total confidence that they would get their man eventually
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Old 07-19-2009, 11:44 PM   #13
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Default Re: How rare was Louis' mentality?

Some fighters that were unflappable:

Salvador Sanchez
Jose Luis Ramirez
Alexis Arguello
Carlos Monzon
Eder Jofre
Emile Griffith
Ricardo Lopez
Zab Judah
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:35 AM   #14
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Default Re: How rare was Louis' mentality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokaj View Post
It seems that the kryptonite for powerful, lethal punchers often are that they are prone to frustration when the other fighter make them ineffectual. Liston, Tyson, (young) Foreman, Duran and perhaps Dempsey could be used as examples here. But this didn't seem to be the case with Louis. Against for example Conn and Walcott he kept his cool until the opportunity presented itself and then he took it. Which other fighters had this quality do you think?
Bob Fitzsimmons.
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Old 07-20-2009, 06:42 AM   #15
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Default Re: How rare was Louis' mentality?

I think B-Hop may be the same way, almost to a fault at times (Taylor fights).
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